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Indian army soldiers-The Expendables

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by Levina, Feb 15, 2017.

  1. Vergennes

    Vergennes Strategist Staff Member MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    @Hellfire So the major problems of Kashmir are linked to religion ?
     
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  2. VCheng

    VCheng RIDER GEO STRATEGIC ANALYST

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    What can be done to move the Indian laws to reflect the new realities in the 21st century and not remain stuck in 1947?
     
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  3. Inactive

    Inactive Guest

    Yes. Only religion and on it's backdrop - corruption.

    Unfortunately, and here I am about to sound a bigot and a right winger, the problem is limited to one particular religion only - Islam.

    You will find it propping up in Europe too, especially France, soon. You have to study the original scriptures and then correlate with the wahabi-salafi and takfiri ideology. The last is the one where any Muslim who has some kind of sense (and is the one true Muslim as is engaged in improving only own self; the one envisioned by the Prophet; little did he realise that idiots will commandeer the religion he raised) is to be exterminated.

    The issue is, the basic fundamental of Islam for those who have only heard the interpretation of scriptures and not understood, is that one has to be righteous and anyone not righteous, should be brought on the right path.

    The next phrase of ignoring the person who still does not come on the right path of one true god, is conveniently ignored. Then comes the concept of jihad. It means to fight against the evil in one's own self. Now, suddenly, it means to fight anyone who is not a Muslim.


    With majority of people barely passing the minima for being Intellectually sound (aka being idiot is a fashion the world over) add the stupidities and see the fun.

    It is a dangerous combination. And yes, in a nutshell, the religion is and will remain a problem. Unfortunately, even in India, we will have to fight the Muslims (and here I am using this term as the majority is made up of this rabid ideology; or are moving towards it) wherever they are a threat.


    As an analogy --- the Catholics of pre-renaissance era!!

    In India the problem will be more or less continuous as the majority is Hindu - a concept that is areligious in a way as one hindu's concept of god is slightly different from another's and there is no common enforcement. The underlying philosophy remains in recognising god's multiple manifestation, hence 'God' and 'Allah' automatically find acceptance.
     
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  4. MilSpec

    MilSpec Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    just understand few mobs an groups that do shelter the militants do not represent the entire state.
     
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  5. kaku

    kaku Major Technical Analyst

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    Even Police with just pistol capable to eradicate local insurgency and terrorism, if given freedom. As in case was Punjab.

    But problem start when Current CM had connections with Hizb. And that is well documented now, what IB report was on Mehbooba Mufti.
    Then killing of Abdul Ghani Lone. That is not possible that he was killed by only ISI.

    Then the so called secular JKLF, who wiped out and displaced the whole population of KP. And now people like Yasin Malik take higher moral ground. BTW, Hizb was not entered in India till 1992, before that all things were done by JKLF.

    Now, nothing to say more about the problem.
     
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  6. SrNair

    SrNair Captain FULL MEMBER

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    These Kashmiris ,in those 5 districts are really a shameless piece of creatures .
    I would say we need to cut down all those extra benefits we have given to them .

    Giving free hands to the IA would be disaster ,they will kill like flies and World will turn against us .
    Take pictures of stone pelters .beat the shit out of them ,so that they will spend their rest of the life in bed .That is will surely work in this case .
     
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  7. venureddy

    venureddy Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    That's what I meant when I said that we need to get to the people that are behind these stone peltors. I never said anything about talks. But we need to be cunning rather than going straight in for the kill.
     
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  8. Rain Man

    Rain Man 2nd Lieutant POLITICAL ANALYST

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    That's the only problem there, rest of the issues are just symptoms and/or consequences. The partition of India and creation of 'Islamic homeland Pakistan' happened because of religion, then their subsequent claim on Muslim majority Kashmir, some Kashmiris' desire to break away from non-Muslim India as an independent Muslim state, some Kashmiris' desire for joining Muslim Pakistan, subsequent jihad for attaining that goal, it's detrimental effect on Kashmir's economy and employment, Article 370 that prevents growth of investments and industries in Kashmir, unemployment, etc., all are because of this one single factor.

    And @Hellfire , to hell with sounding like a bigot and a right winger, it's time to call a spade a spade. First step of finding a solution to a problem is to recognize the problem, and we Indians are mostly shy about recognizing the problem when religion is involved, and that's a bigger problem.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2017
  9. Levina

    Levina Admin- Social media Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    I would like to add something here.
    Religion is the garb under which the real issues are being hidden.
    All the so called problems have only been incited to keep the real agenda behind it, under wraps.
    Poor Kashmiris are made to believe that their religion (religion of the majority that is) under attack in the Indian democracy.
    None of this is true.
    At the heart of Kashmir issue is the water insecurity of both the countries involved. If today LOC is recognised as the international border from being de facto then India will be the permanent upper riparian and Pakistan the lower riparian of INDUS water and its tributaries. More than India,Pakistan needs these rivers. One reason Pakistan refuses to recognise LOC as IB.
    Then ofcourse we have the New Great Game,NGG, which is synonymous with politics of influence and power projection in Central and west Asia.
    If you look at the map then you will know why NGG is important for Kashmir and why a third country China would be interested in the valley.


    That's all gentlemen.


    Thanks for being patient. :)
     
  10. Rain Man

    Rain Man 2nd Lieutant POLITICAL ANALYST

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    Yes, in fact we shouldn't have allowed such hugely disproportionate benefits in the first place. And all those benefits to Hurriyet leaders is beyond me!

    They will live to tell the tale......identify the leaders among these groups and make them disappear, take out the heads and let people assume that they have gone across the border for holy training on jihad.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
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  11. VCheng

    VCheng RIDER GEO STRATEGIC ANALYST

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    Are you implying that the solution to the issues being discussed lies outside the borders of India?
     
  12. Rain Man

    Rain Man 2nd Lieutant POLITICAL ANALYST

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    Naahh....I don't think so. Water is just a reason Pakistan shows to justify all that it does, but essentially it is about that "K" in "Pakistan", a peaceful and prosperous Muslim majority state just across the border in India would be a threat to their existence as a separate Muslim country. Besides, they have built the narrative of their country around their holy fight for Kashmir, their all-powerful military assumed such control over their country's politics, policies and resources because of Kashmir, it's very difficult to undone everything and let it go.

    If water was such a serious issue, then Pakistan could have just maintained friendly relations with India to secure it, especially considering the kind of price they are paying for the enmity. They already have a very beneficial Indus Water Treaty that we are honouring even under such vile animosity, all they needed was good relations with India.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
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  13. kaku

    kaku Major Technical Analyst

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    The Paks are much idiot to analyse such strategic situation, IMO. They dont give a shit about rivers. Otherwise this was solved much much earlier.

    They have one goal and only one goal to justify two nation theory. And how you justify it if your enemy Hindu India become Friendly "Just" India.

    BTW, as Dr. Christine Fair say, India need to develop sub conventional deterrence.
    India also need to fund TTP. India need to be cold hearted and think of lives of Indian citizen as first priority and how to protect it. Even if that is required somewhat I dont want to say. You know.
     
  14. Dagger

    Dagger 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    I think its beyond even what you think.. Your theory would be right if giving them kashmir would make us friends. But it won't. We are the glue that holds their nation together.
    A common enemy bogeyman to stop their natural tendency of majority stamping on the minority. (first other religions, then ahmedis, then shias, after that surely would come the baluchis, sindhis, pathans, etc etc till eternity)

    But now whatever shit happens to their country, they blame RAW. Now a sindhi or baluchi would be dumb to ask fr independence if India was really a warmonger. strength in numbers. so they use us for national unity.

    We overestimate the Two nation theory hurt. once its over, we will hav ghazwa e hind fever.
     
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  15. Nilgiri

    Nilgiri Lieutenant GEO STRATEGIC ANALYST

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    My friend, there have been studies that show that in almost any population of humans (and apparently higher order animals in general) it takes just 10% of the population to have an "extremist,radicalised" portion of it for the rest of the 90% to "fall in line" behind it with almost zero opposition. They actually looked into various examples in history (like pre WW2 germany etc) and apparently this 1 in 10 rule is very high consistency at all points.

    I forgot the exact name of the paper, but I came across it when I was reading into crowd psychology and manipulation. I will also let you apply this to the world at large regarding its cultural and religious "blocs".

    In Indian Kashmir the population of this phenomenon is postulated to be around 5% (as posted by members already)...so you can imagine its in that zone of perpetuating turmoil (below 10%, but well above 1%)....that needs the remaining 95% to be very well educated (and thus very resilient) for there to be genuine progress. The security forces and large budget India has deployed there is to in theory give time for this to happen and for the problem to solve itself better down the road. Right now its still a problem very much in transition and quite vulnerable.

    Neither can you kill off the 5%, because a) thats murder and thus highly illegal and morally/ethically wrong as well and b) it would upset the balance and the radicalised elements would probably tip to 10%...i.e a huge justification for their claims would be underlined etc.

    The b) is what has long since happened in Israel/Palestine (the reasons why are more diverse but thats a diff subject) so much so that Israel simply has effectively created its own version of article 370 (used in kashmir) but one that enforces massive political + military control and outright segregation/denial of citizenship given the radical elements are at 10%+.

    This is where India does not want to go at all regarding Kashmir (because eventually it will fray at the concept of what Kashmir is in the indian union)....and India may be forced to make some compromises on recognition and presence in international fora regarding Kashmir that it does not want to (because of the precedence it sets)....not to mention the Indian constitution itself would have to be amended for it (and that requires massive mandate from any govt).

    Thus India feels the status quo is the most acceptable situation and give the state as much time as it needs to develop beyond visceral identity politics etc.
     

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