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Indian Army's new Bullet Proof Jacket by DRDO

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by Darth Marr, Aug 12, 2017.

  1. Vergennes

    Vergennes Strategist Staff Member MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Is that Indian army's new bullet proof jacket ? As much as it seems well protected,it has no MOLLE,no load carriage system,no modularity,no other configuration possible....

    There's better.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Gessler

    Gessler Mod MODERATOR

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    Don't know if this will be bought or something else - I think this is just DRDO's offer for the requirement.

    AFAIK, the Army had already placed orders for some 50,000 TAML vests (possibly of the type shown above). Although the eventual requirement would be much bigger than that. It's even possible there could be multiple orders met by different manufacturers.
     
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  3. saumyasupratik

    saumyasupratik FULL MEMBER

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    Depends, lugging around a vest with plates and SAP in high altitude mountainous regions can be tiring, soldiers choose to forego the vest altogether to maintain endurance in that case. Also troops from Engineers, EME, AMC, Arty and other support arms might not be issued bullet resistant vests altogether and only the tactical vest with the webbing.

    I kinda like the new plate carriers being issue to RR.[​IMG]

    It's also not as if only we do it.
    [​IMG]
     
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  4. kakathiya

    kakathiya FULL MEMBER

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    At last these noobs r making something sensible instead of making mosquito coils, lol
     
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  5. kakathiya

    kakathiya FULL MEMBER

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    This is never going to be produced it's just a prototype which will be tested for another 10 years as the one who will retire & get his pension this will be thrown into dustbin ever after, meanwhile our generals will call for a global tender for a mega deal to procure these basic bullet proof vests, trial them for years & buy a few get some commission & keep quite as our soldiers carry vintage iron plates being vulnerable.
     
  6. kakathiya

    kakathiya FULL MEMBER

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    It's something like asking a blacksmith to design a suit, these fellows have no idea of ergonomics, it would be better if the job is handled by national institute of fashion who can design excellent models, these noobs from DRDO(DODO) should only suggest the material & measurements, is kevlar so expensive that none in India can manufacture it? Why r v still using ceramic & steel plates?
     
  7. Hjörþrimul

    Hjörþrimul FULL MEMBER

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    Steel plates are outdated, but ceramic plates are the go-to for modern high-level protection on both light vehicles and personal protection systems. As a plate, it provides Level IV protection, stopping full rifle calibers and armor penetrating rounds (except calibers exceeding .338. It will stop non-AP .338 rounds however).



    Hard Kevlar provides Level II and Level III protection, good against intermediate rounds. but offering little protection against armor penetrating ammo. Pistols and assault rifles mostly. Heavier battle and marksman/sniper rifle rounds will still penetrate.



    Most armors and plate carriers will combine ceramic plates to protect vital areas with Kevlar to prevent spalling or penetration.

    This is the armor used by the Norwegian Armed Forces (the soldiers in the second video are from KJK). It generally uses Skjold ceramic plates.





    You can check the various protection levels here - http://www.equipnor.com/media/1563/skjold_brochure_ven004.pdf

    Ceramic plates are the most common high-level protection system found in modern personal armors. Steel on the other hand is not.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
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  8. Blackjay

    Blackjay Developers Guild Developers -IT and R&D

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    There is a good chance these will finally be inducted.Why? Because of gsqr 1438.The reason army has not inducted any is because,they keep failing every product offered domestic or foreign,on basis of gsqr 1438.Now it seems DRDO's BPJ has finally cleared it.
    Unlike Indian private companies, DRDO has the heft to force these on army as long as they meet requirements.The only option army has now is to change the requirements again, otherwise they are inducting them.:agree:






    Those 50,000 should already be delivered by now.:)

    Link-
    https://iadnews.in/2017/03/standing...g-procurement-road-map-urgently/#.WY_YoPRX7qA
     
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  9. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    I was planning to put up the photograph of my gear (worn) which I was using in steep gradients in high altitude. But too much work to redact the photograph.

    I am not very sure about the efficacy of the above equipment in high altitude and rarified atmosphere as the biggest challenge in the terrain (the gradient I am talking about is almost 40-75 degrees at heights above 15000 ft ASL) is wind chill factor, hence requires use of windproof.

    With addition of the system above, it shall leave one in dire straits as the wind proof has the fallout of heat and sweat retention thereby creating a paradox of cold body extremities with rapidly depleting energy reserves as body is 'over heating' under a combination of windproof, weight (thereby increased 'load' for body) and increased body heat (due to rapid energy break down as you climb) but decreased 'cooling' from trunk and in this specific case, over greater body surface and double layering effect.

    It is bad enough at present with plate carriers, especially in winter onset month of October-December, without additional layers being added to places other than trunk, in name of enhanced protection as most vital organs are adequately covered by the present system of using combination of plates.



    For the bold part, it is authorisation scaled to 60% for them and 70% for infantry as the rotational strength of troops available for combat is that much only (the remaining making up Administrative set up/support/depots etc).
     
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  10. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    I thought you had quit the forum. So now you are back in a different avtaar?

    And no, whichever idiot told you that we are using 'iron plates'?
     
  11. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    When you guys attack the armed forces, you forget that I do not permit a bout with one pugilist being hand bound and unable to defend itself.

    What the hell do you mean by the bold portion? Source this statement of yours, because IA has been crying for Body Armour for years, but authorisation by MoD is only for troops in CI/CT environment. Even troops in Ladakh and Kargil do not have them!

    It is not as if the CO gets up in the day and decides to equip his troops with body armour. It has to be 'authorised'. State is such that at times SF have used their own funds to buy better stuff. Bloody shame on you guys for not knowing how the system works. It is not in hands of the Army Chief to buy an equipment. They can only make GSQR, and an expert panel. And year after year substandard crap is pushed and then, when the time has passed, people like you have done here, claim change in QR, as if the QR remains static for you!

    The equipment being shown by us being used by troops, is the one which is being purchased through ACSFP, where the Army Commander's have been given discretionary power to buy stuff to 'circumvent the long and tedious procurement process of MoD for critically important equipment'.

    There are thousands of head which have the critical listing on them, funds are minuscule for the troops deployed under Northern Command itself. So don't post nonsense if you do not know what the problem in the system is!

    Heck, I purchased my own plate carrier with molle ... and hardly used it as I found the multiple pockets impeding me in the terrain and the type of operations we were pushed into.
     
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  12. Blackjay

    Blackjay Developers Guild Developers -IT and R&D

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    First of all let me apologize.I meant to say something else and it came out wrong.I completely agree that their is 0 chance of army (or any soldier)not wanting to have proper BPJ.I also accept that army is at a disadvantage in these criticisms as they are not allowed to defend themselves.

    Here is a source.
    http://www.financialexpress.com/ind...lakh-bullet-proof-jackets-gets-longer/165410/

    The bolded part is pretty much my point.We have noticed overambitious requirements in other procurements too(eg mciws).

    Now obviously your understanding as an ex-army personnel is going to be lot more than mine.So I will accept your words,if you say none of this is army's fault.
    Cheers.
     
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  13. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    There is no requirement to apologize. What is required, is for people to be clear on a defence forum, as to where the forces deserve support and where they deserve criticism.

    I am trying like hell to upload the photograph of the plate carrier with molle that I purchased from X PARA (SF) supply store (non-CSD store) which weighed in at about 1.3 kgs and had space for insertion of plates front and back. The same hardly cost me about Rs 2500 then (2010). But some issues as unable to upload files from browser (either windows or safari OS). Will do so as soon as can, to emphasize the issue we have of operating in rarified atmospheric conditions on steep gradients where in we prefer to carry more ammunition and cut down on food. Even one magazine additionally weighs heavily, so perpetual trade off on food and ammunition occurs, with chocolates/energy bars/gur-chana/chikki/shaker or namkeen para being dietary staple. Nothing more than necessary bare essentials is carried, as every step with unnecessary load weighs heavily on you.

    Here is a report from 2006 of US Army:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/07/politics/pentagon-study-links-fatalities-to-body-armor.html

    This was after 15 years of introduction of body armour in US forces as standard gear. IA is still behind.

    You have to understand that the bureaucrat has 'achievement' when (s)he is able to save few crores of rupees. That this penny wise pound foolish approach is more detrimental, is not something anyone cares about.

    Army Order 1/2004 (or 2003) clearly lays down the criterion for declaring a casualty as a battle casualty. It includes all types sustained in enemy action as also due to causes like landslide, avalanche, lightning strike,road accident, heart attack etc if sustained in active operations/deployment like aid to civil authorities, internal security etc. In a particular case, wherein a JCO was declared a Battle Casualty when he died of heart attack in Machchil sub-sector in 2006, and documents are forwarded by the Army Headquarters for disbursal of the gratuity as due, one bureaucrat wrote that since Heart Attack has a genetic disposition, he can not be declared battle casualty.

    Now our troops come from background where education/awareness is limited. The claims got rejected. And the family is not aware what is the difference between battle and physical casualty (latter being deaths as sustained in routine peace time posting while on leave etc).. In former, in addition to gratuity and pension, additional grants by Central Govt, State Govt and other services (like Army Wives Welfare Association, Army Welfare Education Society etc) are provided, in all to the tune of Rs 50 lacs in monetary support & support in terms of education/skill upgradation/preferential employment (this being similar to both groups)etc.

    Till date, that family is suing the army as I got a message sent across to them, when I came to know of the case, through their unit guys and the CO, who was not aware of the case as it occurred prior to his taking the office.

    Such is the standard of Government support to armed forces. Instead of making sure that men are protected, in order to save a few crores now, they are willing to pay greater sum in terms of monetary and human costs, both tangible and intangible.
     
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  14. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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  15. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    @Hjörþrimul

    Your point regarding mobility trade off is precisely the point I am in agreement with. Modularity is good, but I do not want restricted movement especially in Greater Himalayan region, for troops.

    We require the flexibility to be able to add on or remove plates, yet the overall weight must not exceed a certain amount as that will result in decreased capability in cliff chop/ice wall assaults.
     

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