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Indian Aviation :- News and Discussions

Discussion in 'World Economy' started by Gessler, Jan 8, 2015.

  1. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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  2. Gessler

    Gessler Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    SpiceJet Places Orders for 205 Boeing Planes, worth $ 22 billions

    [​IMG]

    NEW DELHI: In one of the biggest aircraft order by an Indian carrier, India’s fourth largest carrier SpiceJet on Friday announced that it will buy up to 205 Boeing planes worth $22 billion (Rs 1.5 lakh crore).

    SpiceJet chairman Ajay Singh, who has to his credit bringing back the carrier that was on the verge of closure in December 2014, said it has firmed up plane orders for 155 Boeing 737-8 Max and 50 purchase rights for wide body long haul planes like Boeing 787 Dreamliners and the narrow-bodied Boeing 737s.

    "This is one of the largest deals in Indian aviation and the largest for SpiceJet," Ajay Singh told reporters.

    "Our turnaround story has been one which has very few parallels in the world today. We have achieved seven consecutive quarters of profit, highest on-time performance (OTP) and lowest cancellations and a record load factor of over 90% every month for 20 months in a row," Singh explained. India’s aviation sector is witnessing over 20 per cent growth since past four years and has become one of the fastest growing market globally attracting the attention of stakeholders globally, mainly the plane makers, for whom India now is a crucial market.

    For U.S plane maker, Boeing, the SpiceJet agreement will offer it some cushioning in India’s aviation market as its rival Airbus has won record-sized orders with India’s biggest domestic carrier, IndiGo, and another low-cost carrier, GoAir. While Airbus dominates the domestic short-haul market, which uses narrow-bodied planes, Boeing has dominated the long-haul market in India with wide-bodied passenger aircraft. Airbus commands a two-third market share of aircraft in India.

    There are 460 narrow- and wide-bodied passenger planes with Indian carriers, and 194 more have been ordered since 2014 excluding the latest orders from SpiceJet.

    Indian carriers have largely remained with either Airbus or Boeing for narrow- and wide-bodied aircraft, with state-owned Air India as an only exception to have aircraft manufactured by both manufacturers.

    Airlines benefit by having a fleet of single manufacturer as they have to engage fewer pilots and engineers. Boeing, Airbus or any other aircraft require a different team, which increases an airline’s operational costs. Some of the newer Indian airlines—such as IndiGo—have chosen to buy a single type from a single manufacturer. IndiGo, with a fleet size of 125 aircraft, has all narrow-bodied Airbus, while Jet Airways has largely Boeing, with a few Airbus as well.

    SpiceJet has a fleet size of 40 aircraft, of which 22 are narrow-bodied Boeing 737-800 and of Bombardiers and turboprops, besides 40 Boeing 737-MAX on order.

    GoAir has only Airbus planes. In 2015, IndiGo ordered 250 Airbus A320neo planes, Jet Airways ordered 75 Boeing 737 Max planes and Vistara ordered seven Airbus 320neo planes.

    In 2014, SpiceJet ordered 40 Boeing 737 MAX planes and Air Costa ordered 50 Embraer E-2 jets. In July 2016, GoAir ordered 72 Airbus A320neo. IndiGo, Jet Airways, Air India, Air Asia and other airlines also have deliveries lined up for orders placed between 2011 and 2013, which are adding to their fleet in phases and will be delivered by 2020.

    http://www.newindianexpress.com/nat...rders-for-205-planes-from-boeing-1559255.html

    +++

    Wow. Private airliners are buying planes in HUNDREDS and it's surprising that no-one thought of setting up a full-fledged Airbus/Boeing aircraft assembling/component-manufacturing plant in India? Like the Airbus facilities in China. We have companies like Dynamatics making critical components for Airbus planes (which are then shipped to China to go into final assembly) but they are not even in the same league!

    @Abingdonboy @PARIKRAMA @randomradio @vstol jockey @MilSpec @R!CK @Hellfire
     
  3. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    Watch this space I would say.

    Modi will target this at some point IMHO.
     
  4. R!CK

    R!CK 2nd Lieutant Technical Analyst

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    Guess being at the brink of bankruptcy once failed to create a better understanding of the market for SpiceJet. Unless ofcoz Spice had a complete overhaul of their management, I'll be watching the 787 order very closely. A big deviation from the Indian LCC strategy I must admit.

    Good Day!
     
  5. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    I was discussing the same with @Abingdonboy and @Ankit Kumar 001 . Ideally we should at least get 40-50% of work done In India under a Make In India project for Boeing and Airbus.. wings, body, interiors or even Engine work if we can get Engine makers to open a shop in India will do a massive lift to our aeronautical industry..

    For sure not whole plane but we should target upto 50% civil commercial planes which we order..

    We also need to get Falcon line from Dassault under MII and make different editions for our biz houses and internal VIP transport.. we could modify few for our Intel and recon work as well (if suitably we can do)

    We need to look at C295 and also C130xj or something like C2 Kawasaki for MII assembling as well. .. we might require close to 100 such birds each in 2 categories..

    It's better to build transport fleet from US majors over Frontline fighter jets..
     
  6. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major Technical Analyst

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    Hope that's by the time he thinks about it , it does not become a Mi17 like situation.
     
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  7. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    When Modi visited France he visited the aerospace cluster in Toulose and said something along the lines of creating a similar cluster in India, looking at the WDFC, Dholera Special Investment Region (SIR) MoUs with Airbus and Make in India policy as a whole bigger things are on the horizon but it can't happen overnight. Let TATA set up the C-295W plant first and WDFC become operational.
     
  8. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    A rather different situation bro, the civilian airliner market in India (and Asia) is growing exponentially, there are scores of world class airports being built in tier 2 and 3 cities now and and a growing understanding of needing to create superior air links across the nation.

    Air traffic is linked to GDP growth, if India can keep churning out >7% growth rates the airline industry will be doubling every 6-10 years.

    There is ample long term demand, the ship has not sailed.
     
  9. R!CK

    R!CK 2nd Lieutant Technical Analyst

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    Sorry missed this 1 earlier, Final Assembly Line in India is a few decades away, but we already have a few Tier 1 suppliers for Boeing and Airbus in India. This will keep expanding over time as we are gradually entering that level of advanced manufacturing through our private players.

    Our orders in hundreds are still dwarfed by the Chinese domestic orders for over 1000 narrow body aircraft. We could see an outfitting facility/ finishing centre for A320 or B737 in the near decade if the aviation sector continues this growth as projected. An outfitting facility/finishing centre usually functions as a cabin outfitting shop where fully assembled aircraft fly in for cabin outfitting and customization much like the A330 centre we have in China or A380 facility in Hamburg. But this is subject to availability of local cabin spare suppliers and OEM facility in the country. Until then, more Tier 1 contracts is the best we can dream for.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Good Day!
     
  10. Inactive

    Inactive Guest

    The thrust of the present government is in connectivity to Tier 2 cities. If that can be achieved, there shall be a great demand for narrow bodies and turbo-prop aircraft. With the Bombardier making foray into Indian market, if Spicejet expands, it may want to expand on it's Bombardier Q400 fleet too for the Tier B cities. The aircraft is spacious and comfortable and will be directly challenging ATR for the same segment.
     
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  11. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    We should stop using China's assembly agreement in the Indian context. As I have said, airline travel is a function of GDP/GDP growth, India's GDP (nominal and PPP) is still WELL below China's as is its per capita income thus there is much greater demand in China right now and hence OEMs will be more attracted to that market. However, India will one day be the most populous nation on the planet and will be (one of) the fastest growing economies on the planet and with 50+ smart cities to be developed, manufacturing clusters being formed along DFCs and tourism to be increased India's airline sector is still just at the very start of its boom period.

    A decade from now (when there is the requisite infrastructure and a decade's worth of high GDP growth behind it) India can look at similar agreements.
     
  12. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    @PARIKRAMA
    I guess I have posted earlier about it on thread.
    Russia, India to start joint production of aircraft
    Given market size, growing industry and given that many countries are leaving low end manufacturings, calling it a "few decades" away will be too much. Though, it'll take about 10-15 years.
    I think I can put that "market saturation" way here.
    Let's take example of Apple Smartphones.
    Since, the most Americans who could afford expensive phones have got Apple Phones so the company shifted it's assembly line to China (I'm repeating assembly line, iPhones aren't manufactured in China but assembled, telling because I have seen many friends misinformed about it).
    As of now, 90% of Chinese citizens who could buy these phones have iPhones now.
    So, the company has been readily attempting efforts to set a shift assembly lines in India now.

    We have a great opportunity because of their timing.
    1. Indian Middle class and market is relatively small and growing very fast, enough to make them stay here for decades.
    2. India is just about to start it's Fabs and semiconductor chips manufacturing.
    If we can train our labour for advanced chips (upto 28nm-10nm) before our market applies brakes and Apple leaves us plus manufacturing chips at large scale, we can even shift whole manufacturing and not only assembly in India.
    But as on this thread, we are talking about Airliners and we aren't going to be as lucky in aviation as we can be electronics manufacturing case.
    India still imports more than 40% equipment for aviation and by the time we become an overwhelming market (around 2030), growth can't be that high.
    Reason is that fertility rate brutally lags population growth rate, resulting overall population and economic growth slowdown, at least compared to today.:(
    Will India turn old before it becomes rich? - LiveMint
    Getting HDI in order of 0.7 and being a second world country in terms of development won't be a challenge in next 10 years.
    Over that, it won't be difficult either to remain world's fastest growing major economy till 2050, but remaining fastest only doesn't matter, threshold of growth is needed.

    India needs to grow 8% for next 30 years to achieve 70% of GDP per capita of countries like Italy, China (at that time), or Japan/South Korea etc..


    China has advantage of a head start, they did what they must have done way before us.

    Plus being the biggest market, country, military, producer and an inta galactica supa powa (LOL :D) is a different thing and being the richest market able to provide highest standard lifestyle to it's citizens is other thing.
    Being largest economy won't matter for common people if you won't be able to rank even in top 20-30 in GDP per capita HDI, being largest oil importer won't matter if your consumption per capita is low.
    Similarly, being largest aviation market can only make you feel good till you check out that it's ratio with population continues to be low as compared to developed countries.

    My Grandpa and father left this world keeping in mind that we are not industrialized, I left my schools reading this (and teachers had horrible inferiority complex), I know my son is going to read same (slightly better way), but will my grandson and great grandson will be able to boast of being from a rich country?
    Will I ever be able to see what I wanna see? Can India break into developed league in this century?:cry:


    I will die around 2080-90 at max. (unless I'm crushed by some vehicle or shooted or blasted down by some terrorist.:D
    So, I'm going to die one or two decades before end century. Who'll be along with me?:lol:
    @R!CK @Gessler @PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy
     
  13. Gessler

    Gessler Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Yes I read about this. But thing is, who in India is ready to buy Russian airliners in any respectable numbers?? While Russia does make great aircraft, in civilian transport roles safety & quality plays a huge part...that's where brand value, international presence & well-established PR counts. No one can beat Boeing & Airbus. Even Embraer doesn't come close. Is it any wonder why small players from even developed countries like Bombardier, Dassault & Mitsubishi fail to make it big in the large-scale civil aviation sector?

    Not just us, it's unlikely anyone in the world would be willing to take a Sukhoi/Irkut-built airliner over a Boeing/Airbus, especially when considering large-fleet operations. Unless we're talking about internationally sanctioned/isolated states or very poor countries. Even Iran jumped on Airbus as soon as it had the chance!

    That said, I'm not even aware of anyone in India actually placing any verifiable orders for any MC-21 or SSJ100.

    Me!

    By the year 2080, I'll be 83 yrs old. That is of course, if I don't die until then.
     
  14. Ripcord322

    Ripcord322 Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    While even an assembling plant for Apple...(Where they import Display Panels.... Mother Board...SoC's... Batteries...And assemble it here) will itself take a lot of investment and policy reforms....

    I don't think Extremely Advanced Stuff like 10nm Chip Fabs will be here anytime soon...
    It might take decades... Perhaps.....
     
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  15. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    100% sure this will never ammount to anything, Airbus and Boeing have a monopoly on the market and no new entity, especially not from Russia, will be able to gain enough traction with private airlines that place reliability and brand image above all else besides the Superjet has already got a bad name because of aircraft losses.
     

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