Dismiss Notice
Welcome to IDF- Indian Defence Forum , register for free to join this friendly community of defence enthusiastic from around the world. Make your opinion heard and appreciated.

Indian Civil Nuclear Program: News & Discussions

Discussion in 'Indian Defence Industry' started by randomradio, Nov 11, 2016.

  1. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    9,143
    Likes Received:
    3,859
    http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/india-japan-sign-landmark-civil-nuclear-deal/1/808357.html

    India and Japan today signed a landmark civil nuclear cooperation deal after talks between Prime Minister Narendra Modi and his counterpart Shinzo Abe, a move that will boost bilateral economic and security ties and facilitate US-based players to set up atomic plants in India.

    The two countries had reached a broad agreement for cooperation in civil nuclear energy sector during Abes visit to India in December last year, but the deal was yet to be signed as some issues were yet to be worked out.

    "A landmark deal for a cleaner, greener world! PM @narendramodi and PM @AbeShinzo witness exchange of the landmark Civil Nuclear Agreement," External Affairs Ministry spokesman Vikas Swarup tweeted today.

    The deal would allow Japan to export nuclear technology to India, making it the first non-NPT signatory to have such a deal with Tokyo. It would also cement the bilateral economic and security ties as the two countries warm up to counter an assertive China.

    There was political resistance in Japan - the only country to suffer atomic bombings during World War II - against a nuclear deal with India, particularly after the disaster at the Fukushima Nuclear Power Plant in 2011.

    Japan is a major player in the nuclear energy market and an atomic deal with it will make it easier for US-based nuclear plant makers Westinghouse Electric Corporation and GE Energy Inc to set up atomic plants in India as both these conglomerates have Japanese investments.

    Other nations who have signed civil nuclear deal with India include the US, Russia, South Korea, Mangolia, France, Namibia, Argentina, Canada, Kazakhstan and Australia. PTI ABH ZH AKJ ZH
     
    MOHITH REDDY, R!CK, PARIKRAMA and 7 others like this.
  2. Kalmuahlaunda

    Kalmuahlaunda Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2016
    Messages:
    494
    Likes Received:
    925
    Country Flag:
    India
    This is one of the most important deals for India. Kudos to Modi and his team of bureaucrats
     
    PARIKRAMA and anant_s like this.
  3. Grevion

    Grevion Think Tank TROLL ELITE MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2016
    Messages:
    1,541
    Likes Received:
    2,477
    Country Flag:
    India
    But we are not a member of NSG.:haha:
    How could the world do this.:sarcastic:
     
  4. Kalmuahlaunda

    Kalmuahlaunda Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2016
    Messages:
    494
    Likes Received:
    925
    Country Flag:
    India
    But but Chinese media already started the butthurt... :lol::lol:
     
    BlackOpsIndia, Darth Marr and Grevion like this.
  5. Inactive

    Inactive Guest

    Reading this I almost felt I was in PDF ...

    Sorry to see nothing useful could be posted here
     
  6. BlackOpsIndia

    BlackOpsIndia Developers Guild Developers -IT and R&D

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2016
    Messages:
    660
    Likes Received:
    1,247
    Country Flag:
    India
    We should now stop pursuing NSG membership, its just a formality and we must never give so high price for a formality. Lets drop our bid to NSG and increase pressure in South China sea.
     
  7. anant_s

    anant_s Encyclopedia Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2016
    Messages:
    255
    Likes Received:
    989
    Country Flag:
    India
    India, Japan Sign Landmark Nuclear Energy Deal After 6 Years Of Talks: 10 Points

    [​IMG]

    Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Japan's PM Shinzo Abe have signed the landmark nuclear deal

    TOKYO: After six years of wrangling and intense negotiations, India and Japan today signed a landmark civil nuclear agreement in Tokyo, where Prime Minister Narendra Modi and his Japanese counterpart Shinzo Abe held talks. PM Modi is on a three-day visit to Japan, his second in two years.
    Here are the 10 latest developments:
    1. "The Agreement for Cooperation in Peaceful Uses of Nuclear Energy marks a historic step in our engagement to build a clean energy partnership," said PM Modi.
    2. The agreement will allow Japan to supply nuclear reactors, fuel and technology to India, which will be the first country that has not signed the Non-Proliferation Treaty or NPT to have such a deal with Tokyo.
    3. The two countries had reached a broad agreement last December during Mr Abe's visit to India, but Japan, the only country to have suffered a nuclear attack, saw strong political resistance to the deal, especially after the 2011 disaster at the Fukushima Nuclear Power Plant.
    4. Tokyo had reservations about such an agreement with a nation that hasn't signed the Non-Proliferation Treaty, and had sought assurances from New Delhi that it would not conduct nuclear tests any more.
    5. India has declared a moratorium on nuclear testing since its last explosions in 1998. But with concerns about neighbours China and Pakistan being nuclear armed, it has not signed the Non-Proliferation Treaty, contending that it is discriminatory.
    6. Japan is a major player in the nuclear energy market and this deal will make it easier for US-based companies like Westinghouse and GE to set up atomic plants in India as both have Japanese investments.
    7. India is in advanced negotiations with Westinghouse Electric, owned by Japan's Toshiba, to build six nuclear reactors in the south - a part of New Delhi's plan to ramp up nuclear capacity ten-fold by 2032.
    8. A joint statement by PM Modi and Mr Abe also made a strong reference to Pakistan. "The two Prime Ministers condemned terrorism in strongest terms in all its forms and manifestations in the spirit of 'zero tolerance'... They called upon all countries to implement the UNSC Resolution 1267 and other relevant resolutions designating terrorist entities," it said, referring to India's bid to get Jaish-e-Mohammed chief Masood Azhar designated as global a terrorist under this resolution.
    9. The Prime Minister landed in Tokyo last night and this morning met Japanese Emperor Akihito. He also addressed top Japanese CEOs and invited investments, saying India has a huge and substantial need for finances and his government is pursuing reform policies to make the country the world's "most open" economy.
    10. From Tokyo, PM Modi, accompanied by Shinzo Abe, will travel to Kobe by the famed Shinkansen bullet train, the technology that will be deployed for the Mumbai-Ahmedabad High Speed Railway. He will visit the Kawasaki Heavy Industries facility in Kobe, where high speed railway is manufactured. Japan wants to edge out China in new bullet train deals with India. The competition between Asia's biggest economies for high-speed rail contracts has been intense. China beat out Japan for a line in Indonesia last year, and the two are set to face off again over a proposed Singapore-Kuala Lumpur link.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------India is presently only country that has a civil nuclear agreement with Japan despite not a signatory of NPT


    1. This speaks volumes for a spotless Nonproliferation Record India has had. :india:
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    What this deal brings

    India is negotiating for 6 AP 1000 reactors from Westinghouse having an approximate gross capacity of 1150 MWe 3716.AP1000.jpg ap1000.jpg

    and 6 Economically Simplified Boiling Water Reactors (ESBWRs) by General Electric Hitachi.
    hitachi-nuclear-2.jpg

    This reactor is considered as one of the safest reactor design at the moment.
    upload_2016-11-11_20-46-39.png
    upload_2016-11-11_20-46-56.png

    303-3.jpg
    With civil agreement in place, Japanese companies are free to do nuclear trade with India and influx of modern technology, especially in ASME Section III, Class 1 components used in Nuclear power plants will increase multifold.
     
    R!CK, Levina, BlackOpsIndia and 4 others like this.
  8. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,672
    Likes Received:
    2,498
    Country Flag:
    India
    Economically unviable

    When the United Progressive Alliance government announced its intention to start work on two reactors each from Westinghouse and General Electric (GE) in the 12th Plan period (2012-2017), it did little to pretend that these contracts made sense on their own merits. Instead, as the former chairperson of the Atomic Energy Commission, Anil Kakodkar, explained, India had “to keep in mind the commercial interests of foreign countries and of the companies there” and was obliged to purchase these reactors in return for U.S. diplomatic support on other issues.

    Last year, GE backed out of this arrangement citing concerns about India’s liability law. This was good riddance; GE was offering India an untested design that it has not yet managed to sell anywhere in the world. But the government’s decision to deepen India’s investment in Westinghouse — even as negative news about the company has accumulated — makes little sense.

    In April, Toshiba, which acquired Westinghouse in 2006, announced a $2.3 billion write-down in its value, largely because of persistent concerns about the economic viability of Westinghouse’s AP1000 design. Of more than a dozen orders that Westinghouse expected from within the U.S. a decade ago, only four have materialised. Just last month, a utility called Florida Power and Light postponed its plans for two AP1000 reactors by at least four years. And in February, the Tennessee Valley Authority, a U.S. government company, cancelled its plans for two AP1000 reactors explaining that this was “the fiscally responsible action”.

    Likewise, the fiscally responsible action for India would be to cancel this deal. The two AP1000 reactors being built in the U.S. state of Georgia are now projected to cost Rs.1.4 lakh crore, which translates into a capital cost of about Rs.70 crore per megawatt of capacity. Even indigenous Indian nuclear reactors, which have struggled to be economically competitive, have capital costs that are seven times lower at about Rs.10 crore per megawatt.

    A more detailed calculation indicates that with these capital costs, the first year tariff on electricity from these reactors could be as high as Rs.25 per unit. In contrast, recent winning bids for solar power have projected tariffs of about Rs.5 per unit. The government claims that it can reduce construction costs in India by 25-30 per cent, but this is far from sufficient to make the AP1000 reactors cost-competitive.

    http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/the-cost-of-nuclear-diplomacy/article8748864.ece

    @anant_s thoughts ?
     
  9. Inactive

    Inactive Guest

    @anant_s

    This has been made a sticky for Indian Civil Nuclear Program: News & Discussions.
     
    Grevion, anant_s and PARIKRAMA like this.
  10. BlackOpsIndia

    BlackOpsIndia Developers Guild Developers -IT and R&D

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2016
    Messages:
    660
    Likes Received:
    1,247
    Country Flag:
    India
    Its an oped by some lefty, no offense but when talking about issues like this you should never trust lefty sources and more so when they are op-ed, they are master of spinning any story and churning figures from home made fact factory.

    Let's wait till the deal is signed or some actual figures are released. Lefties and especially Indians go any lengths to spread lies as they are already awarded as "intellectuals". I have great hope for my countries bureaucrats that they will make a wise choice.

    Remember the recent propaganda against Rafale and all the way to fraud IPS Sanjeev Bhatt, they are very strong in manufacturing lies.
     
    anant_s likes this.
  11. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,672
    Likes Received:
    2,498
    Country Flag:
    India
    You are no different from them, no offence. You don't have any rational counter arguments. 'Leftist conspiracy theory' is not good enough. How is this economically viable than Rs.5 per unit solar projects ?

    This is a civilian deal, every details are agreed in public before signing the document.
     
    indo786 and Inactive like this.
  12. indo786

    indo786 FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2016
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    44
    Country Flag:
    India
    We need some detailed article on this. India is in dire need of nuclear energy. At the same time we should also support our indegenous nuclear reactor program which is currently moving at snails pace due to US pressure. Also we need to deal with the NGO's stalling construction of these projects by misleading poor, unaware people.
     
  13. anant_s

    anant_s Encyclopedia Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2016
    Messages:
    255
    Likes Received:
    989
    Country Flag:
    India
    @Agent_47
    Hi!
    Kakodkar sir oversaw signing of 123 agreement between India and US and i've followed his (& Dr. Grover's) writings and with your permission, like to share what my views are. Please note some of these views represent my understandings as a professional engineer and therefore might not be inline with popular political/public opinion.

    1. When nations change their positions that affect international relations, at times things do look contradictory and it looks like that case on above issue. I'll begin here (i discussed the same with @PARIKRAMA the same, some time back), by taking us back to first Indian nuclear tests. India conducted the tests in a quest to develop nuclear weapons, after China did so at Lop Nur in 1964, it was to create a buffer a possible bullying that it anticipated after 1962 war. India had a nuclear program (with assistance of Canada (test reactors at BARC) and US (Bechtel & GE building 2*210 MWe BWR at Tarapur) and few others), starting in early 50s. When India tested its first device, international co-operation evaporated almost overnight and general view of world was to isolate India on the front, with a firm belief that Indian Nuclear Program would die a natural death. However they discounted for resolve that Indian Scientific, Engineering and Political establishment had and while our own program went slow, it actually went from a position of strength to strength. India evolved its own design of 220 MWe (later 235 MWe) from unfinished PHWRs that AECL was then building at Rajasthan (based on Douglas point Design). Today India is one of the largest operator of PHWR fleet and our own design have been scaled upto 700 MWe. The point India made was that isolation only made her stronger. This was duly noted in debate in US congress during 123 agreement signing.
    2. It was also thought that India might allow to proliferate N weapon technology but as out record shows, we probably have the cleanest record of them all when it comes to guarding the technology. Again this point was noted by US Congress.
    3. Now when 123 agreement was signed, it was based on one more fact that US had realized (apart from the point that isolation of India on nuclear front, isn't serving any purpose), India needs to be a part of global nuclear administration regime, rather than be away from it, for this actually strengthens global efforts against proliferation and nuclear terrorism.
    4. Commercial interests of US multinational firms, is a fact that cannot be overlooked. Certainly not by US government. When the agreement was signed, it was hoped that lucrative orders would follow, as the case been with China. But as time showed, before trade could begin, clarity is required (especially on Liability Clause). Some of these issue seem to be sorted out, some will shortly. & hopefully with that US will get to have a share of N trade market.
    5. Now with 123 agreement, it opened floodgates for several other areas, where it was hitherto unimaginable to think co-operation. I'm of course referring to arms sales, where US has emerged largest supplier in last decade. Similarly co-operation in several other high end areas is also in the offing.
    6. Essentially Civil Nuclear agreement allowed a long standing wall of mistrust of decades between two nations, to be demolished and its implications on economic, political and other fronts is for all to see. This is what i mean by change in geopolitical positions.
    7. Now on question of safety of "NEW" reactor design. AP1000, AES 2006 (KKNPP Design), EPR 2 (EDF), even our own 700 MWe PHWR are, to say new design. But really, are they? Answer would be these are Evolutionary designs not Revolutionary. What i mean by same is that these have been developed from older matured designs and have undergone Upscaling (capacity wise), introduction of better material and manufacturing that gets available with time, improvement in safety (by virtue of availability of better understanding of thermal hydraulics and neutronic behaviour) and in some cases by simplification of design philosophies. So while yes these are being built for first time, these aren't entirely unknown concepts. Such type of design evolution approach is also used elsewhere (especially Aerospace industry) and is a part of what we call in our industry as Design Risk management.
    8. Cost projection for new projects especially when you compare with Indian technology are high, but at the same time note that we are increasing capacity multiple times (largest Indian PHWR design is 700 MWe, where as smallest LWR proposed is 1000 MWe. Both reactors occupy same land area, but there is a capacity increase of at least 43%). What it implies that for a given plant, in same geographical area, you can install a much higher capacity. I won't go into why i brought question of land for infra project in India. its all too well known!
    9. Lastly, we all know how public opinions can be altered in India by simply spreading mis-information as we saw in Koodankulam. I'm still a believer of fact that living in a democracy, final choices should lie with people, but for that to happen, we need to fight (at whatever level we happen to be at) against attempts of misleading public opinions for vested interests of few.

    :cheers:
    @Joe Shearer @Abingdonboy @Levina @MilSpec @Hellfire @Vergennes
     
    R!CK, PARIKRAMA, Inactive and 4 others like this.
  14. BlackOpsIndia

    BlackOpsIndia Developers Guild Developers -IT and R&D

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2016
    Messages:
    660
    Likes Received:
    1,247
    Country Flag:
    India
    Ok, I am worst :) I do made a mistake, I should have never quoted you (or anyone for that matter) while I was advising against propaganda. After all Greenpeace India was not violating any FCRA rule and protests to delay Russian Nuclear plant was definitely genuine and "Rational".

    You don't need to reply to this, let's not derail this thread.
     
    Agent_47 likes this.
  15. Echo_419

    Echo_419 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2016
    Messages:
    105
    Likes Received:
    123
    Country Flag:
    India
    I would wait for the deal to be signed before commenting
     

Share This Page