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Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Discussion in 'Indian Military Doctrine' started by Agent_47, Dec 8, 2016.

  1. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog IDF NewBie

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    lol you wish. You proved nothing. This picture bring in no new information.

    We had the design last year itself. Then why are you jumping to conclusions ?

    [​IMG]

    You said 'smart' what? You said it will be something like Matra Durandal which is essentially a short range rocket. :cray:

    Stick with one. If its a foreign design why should we omit tail folding ?!

    With what? according to whom ? According to tender its one of the configurations or all that i know. Like spear.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    We know it will have sat/ins guidance, will definitely able to attack stationary target :dude: Its not a weapon like Matre (Again stick with one if its israeil spice design how is it a rocket?) :facepalm: We know its warhead. Thats more than enough info for any weapon under development.

    [​IMG]

    You need to get over your western bias mate. :evilgrin:

    It was confirmed 2-3 years ago.
     
  2. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Lol yes, just close your eyes and let pride take over. :biggthumpup:
    I for one am happy to see another joint development after Brahmos, Barak 8, or CLGM, that is based on a foreign design and Indian subsystems. If you put your pride aside, you know that this is the best mix out of capability and Indian content, which is why I hoped for something like this.

    No we didn't, that was what I told you the whole time. Even the DRDO graphics had different designs and the one with the quad launcher had folding fins as well, because you can't use quad packs and put the weapons so close to each other with fixed fins.
    All we knew for sure, came from the reports about the test reports, weight between 120 and 150Kg, range around 100Km, a Jaguar can carry 6 at max.

    Durndal is an Anti Airfield Weapon (AAW) and since SAAW seems to have a propulsion too, it's a rocket / missile as well, just with added wings. So you only showed the commonality between both.

    And now that we know PSK was right about the SPICE 250 relation, it's worth to look back at his article:

    http://trishul-trident.blogspot.de/2016/12/?m=1

    So he was certainly right about the airframe and the propulsion and is clearly pointing to the use for a specific reason, unlike SDB like PGMs!
    If the rest happens to be true needs to be seen.

    Btw, can you help me out, my memory is fading. Who was DM in 2010 and must have signed off this co-development? :rolleyes2:

    And as you can see, Spear has folding fins, just as SDB1 and 2 or SPICE 250.

    You are the only one that always brings up western comparison's. You did it in the Astra discussion and did it now too.
    All I stated was the fact that apart of the rear it's identical to SPICE 250 just that the twin launcher seems to be a Rafaut AUF2. So please stop these comparisons out of pride and stick to facts and what we really know.
     
  3. HELLBENT

    HELLBENT FULL MEMBER

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    your confidence in the statement convinces me that you are a member of the SAAW design team

    congratulations good job





    :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
  4. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    Am I missing something, how do fixed wings interfere with a quadpack? Inherently the fins add to the circumfrence of the munition which could effect the ability to twin stack munitions next to one another (and from these pics we can see this hasn't had any issue in the ability to stack them next to one another) but the fins are mounted in front of the rear of the body and do not add even 1cm of length to the munition therefore how can it interfere with munitions that would be carried behind it?

    [​IMG]

    Sorry my friend but your logic doesn't make even the slightest bit of sense to me! Look at the picture above, there is ample space between the front and rear munition. The folding of the fins only seems to be present to reduce drag/aerodynamic interference in flight rather than to act as a space saving tool.


    We heard that the quadpack may not fit on the wings of the Jags but would likely fit on the centreline and the wings would have have twin stacks, we've now seen the Jags with twin stacks on the wings, let's see when the quadpack shows up.


    And a last thing on this, I wouldn't rule out the tail fins folding- look again at the DRDO SAAW render, the fins collapse at 90', not fold internally as with the SPICE 250. Given this was likely a very early test purely meant to test detachment we could still see the tail fins folding as was shown earlier- I wouldn't read too much into these things at the moment.


    @Agent_47 @Gessler
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
  5. Gessler

    Gessler Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    The fact that the Jaguar is already seen carrying SAAW in twin side-by-side configuration proves the fins don't interfere with the munition beside it. The length as shown in the render clearly shows the fins can't interfere with the munitions behind it, either. Basically, the fins are not a hindrance to anything dimensions-wise.

    Another observation - in the renders it is shown that the SAAW is carried upright (with the slit-window for the deployable wings located topside, closer to the aircraft).

    But when we look at the live SAAW that Jaguar is carrying - we can see it's carried upside down. Wing slit is located at the bottom, away from the aircraft. This is also how the SPICE-250 is carried, wing-slit toward the ground.

    The SAAW spins and reorients itself after release, as observed by Abingdonboy.

    [​IMG]

    The guys who made the render bungled up a bit.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
  6. Gessler

    Gessler Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Edited observation:

    @Abingdonboy @Sancho

    The folding fins are necessary when carried in a quad-pack because the length of the launch rail means that the inner fin of either SAAW carried in the front would possibly interfere.

    This is SPICE-250 on quad launcher -

    [​IMG]

    On a twin (side-by-side) launcher this wouldn't be a problem because the length of the launcher terminates before it hits the fins. But on quad configuration this will be an issue. Folding fins are necessary for the quad-config.

    As it may be pointless to develop two different mechanisms for SAAW (twin-config with fixed fins & quad-config with folding fins) it makes sense SAAW will adopt folding fin by the time the quad-config tests start.

    The fixed fins are likely only an early test configuration.
     
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  7. Sathya

    Sathya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    can the space spared by fixed wing help in propulsion ? ie more range is sought ve no. of weapons ?
     
  8. Gessler

    Gessler Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    It doesn't have any effect on range or performance. Even the folded wings deploy into the fixed position once the SAAW is released.
     
  9. Sathya

    Sathya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    i mean the tail section folded fin housing is swapped for propulsion/rocket fuel ?

    by having fixed fins , there will be space spared in tail section right ?
     
  10. Gessler

    Gessler Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    No. There will be no difference.
     
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  11. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog IDF NewBie

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    I don't take pride in someone else achievements.

    Repeating the same don't prove anything. All you got are words from a part time blogger guessing it to be israeli origin based on tender doc images. Any stupid can claim that.

    I have posted the DRDO made diagram above which is exactly what we got.

    Does it have 100km range? weight? wings ? propulsion? Is there anything to show commonality to begin with?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Again the blogger. :dude: Clearly pointing to what? why he never became a proper journalist ?

    Wait, now you are saying its not a PGM like SDB or SPICE 250?

    What co-development?

    Yes, i do. because you make judgments by comparing with western development cycles and products. We follow these project when the first approval and through tender documents. We know the basic design and what to expect and what not. We also know how terrible was DRDO 5 year ago and how it is getting transformed gradually in to a world class R&D organisation. We know how much they improved over the years on seekers,nav systems,propulsion and actuators and other sensors. You jump in and make absurd judgments based on biased assumptions? (Like astra not being good enough for IAF). You on one hand insist on looking at what we know and on the other ignores the inconsistencies and takes a blogger with no proof seriously to justify your biased prospective.

    Facts -

    • The design is not an exact match to spice 250. But inspired.
    • We don't have enough evidence to rule out quad pack.
    • This is clearly not just a anti runway bomb of the 80s but a PGM by contemporary standards.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
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  12. kurup

    kurup 2nd Lieutant IDF NewBie

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    HELLBENT likes this.
  13. HELLBENT

    HELLBENT FULL MEMBER

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    @Agent_47

    i hope u realize why India is a refusing to develop country

    because the masters have gone but the servants still remain

    they will always look down on anything Indian , when the truth becomes too hard , they will find excuses

    unless generational change takes India will always be held back by some of its own people who will twist the truth to suit their own narrative and feed their own inferiority complex
     
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  14. HELLBENT

    HELLBENT FULL MEMBER

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    lolz because spice250 also does the same (pun intended)

    since allegedly it is based on spice250 according to e warriors cum weapon developers of the same
     
  15. W@rwolf

    W@rwolf FULL MEMBER

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    Can anyone ID the guidance kit being tested?

    Looks like the HSLD 450 body, but it's much different from the PGHSLD that we saw during the recent trials.

    Untitled-1.jpg
     
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