Dismiss Notice
Welcome to IDF- Indian Defence Forum , register for free to join this friendly community of defence enthusiastic from around the world. Make your opinion heard and appreciated.

Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Discussion in 'Indian Military Doctrine' started by Agent_47, Dec 8, 2016.

  1. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog IDF NewBie

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2011
    Messages:
    2,958
    Likes Received:
    5,851
    Country Flag:
    India
    [​IMG]

    Don't know name. PGHSLD is clearly different.

    [​IMG]
    Could be replacement program of the closed Sudarshan LGB project. ?
     
  2. Gessler

    Gessler Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2012
    Messages:
    9,745
    Likes Received:
    9,635
    Country Flag:
    India
    Ye kya horaha hai....ek ke baad ek air-launched weapon test hote jaraha hai....

    :tomcat:
     
  3. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Captain FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2016
    Messages:
    1,048
    Likes Received:
    1,601
    Country Flag:
    India
    Nice ... Screen shot from where??

    Please post the video!

    on the PGHSLD
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    Yes clearly - latest pic is different in design

    Logically - it could be further test on the guidance KIT on different size munition

    NOTE : This looks like carriage and release test - The Su30 isn't fitted with a Pod!
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2017
  4. W@rwolf

    W@rwolf FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2016
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    160
    Country Flag:
    India
  5. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Captain FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2016
    Messages:
    1,048
    Likes Received:
    1,601
    Country Flag:
    India
  6. TSUNAMI

    TSUNAMI Captain SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,023
    Likes Received:
    555
    Country Flag:
    India
    It's same for American SDB too. with wings folded you don't have space for the hook(I don't know what they call it) to attach it to pylon. So they attach it from other side of the wings and after drop it gets inverted and wings unfold.
     
    Sathya and Angel Eyes like this.
  7. TSUNAMI

    TSUNAMI Captain SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,023
    Likes Received:
    555
    Country Flag:
    India
    Sudarshan program closed?? When that happaned? Last I heard IAF ordered some 50 kits and DRDO was working on it's successor.
     
  8. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog IDF NewBie

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2011
    Messages:
    2,958
    Likes Received:
    5,851
    Country Flag:
    India
    It was closed around 2012. User requirement changed.
     
    GuardianRED likes this.
  9. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Captain FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2016
    Messages:
    1,048
    Likes Received:
    1,601
    Country Flag:
    India
    Cancelled no ... just further test and development was stopped and this program was merged with the PGHSLD
     
    TSUNAMI, Blackjay and Angel Eyes like this.
  10. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,670
    Likes Received:
    3,457
    Not the wings, the fins, because they reach over the twin launcher right now. If you compare SDB or SPICE 250 on quadracks, you will see that the 2 bombs in front, will be directly with the fins below the quadrack. So without folding the fins, you neither can place the bombs that close to each other, nor under the quad pack.


    First of all, that picture doesn't show the weapon we now see in real pics. It has folding fins and obviously a different seeker section too. But even that confirms what I said, about the need to have folding fins and when you look at real pics of SDB or similar, you will see the issue too.
    Hopefully that will be a different varient that will be developed later, possibly with laser guidance for CAS.

    You are forgetting that the Jags use multi racks for dumb bombs on the inner wing station, so there is no issue to test a quad rack there too, possibly even at the centerline as you stated. However, reports from the tests stated, that a max load of 6 x bombs would be possible, which just got confirmed now, by the choice of most likely Rafaut twin launchers.
    I still hope for the quad rack on the centerline, because that would be a crucial fit for LCA, if possible, but that's another issue.

    I don't rule it out either, nor did I said that they have to fold internally, but you have to distinguish between what we want and what we know!

    We want SAAW to be an indigenous SDB, but we can't ignore that it has a very specific name, that it has a very specific rear design, that new and not available twin racks were chosen for the test launch, instead of Israeli quad racks of SPICE 250.
    So you have to ask yourself, why these specific changes were made?
    Is it an extended range rocket/missile, specifically to destroy enemy airfields and surrounding infrastructure, or is it a baseline PGM for CAS? The aim decides about it's features like seeker technology, range extentions, flight profile, or load capabilities.
     
  11. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,670
    Likes Received:
    3,457
    But you choose to ignore facts for pride reasons.

    And the real design of SAAW now, not only different graphics and speculations! And you posted the graphic I gave you, to show that even DRDO graphics show different designs. So no, it doesn't look like the one in the quad rack version that you got from the DRDO PDF and no it doesn't have quad racks so far, as you expected as well.

    The size, the weight class, the rocket propulsion as it seems and most importantly the aim to attack airfields are pretty clear commonalities. The wing kit only makes it more suitable to modern air warfare and stand off range attack. But as long as you keep ignoring what SAAW means, it doesn't make a difference anyway.

    I said that the rocket propulsion is a different feature and possibly for a specific reason. But I am telling you all along, that we know only if it's comparable to SDB or SPICE if we know about the real design or the seeker technology. That's why I kept telling you, to not jump into conclusions, just because you want it to be a similar.

    Again, you are projecting from you to me. You brought up that the Smart Glider will be available only by 2025, while my point was to use our advantage and get to joint developments in a more efficient way. So you keep bringing up the comparisons, mostly even out of context, because your pride wants DRDO to be as good as Western counterparts. I am more realistic about it and take it as it is and not how I want it to be.

    You already admitted that it's "inspired" by Israeli design, so we know DRDO has not done much design work.
    We also know from NAG that they still are far behind the level at seeker technology. Which makes it interesting to see what seeker technology SAAW will have. The rest is already explained in my reply to Abingdonboy.
     
  12. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog IDF NewBie

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2011
    Messages:
    2,958
    Likes Received:
    5,851
    Country Flag:
    India
    New Generation ARDE Munitions Boost Indian Airforce Firepower

    Legacy conventional bombs in use with the IAF were designed for earlier generations of aircraft. These legacy munitions impose heavy drag penalties on the carrying aircraft which are unable to exploit their otherwise extensive capabilities as a result. Sensing the need to equip the IAF with modern munitions, ARDE embarked on a project to design a new generation of bombs that can exploit the higher carrying speeds and wider flying envelopes of contemporary aircraft in the IAF inventory. These high speed low drag (HSLD) bombs, designed by ARDE,also utilize two types of tail units to cater to different mission profiles – a retarder tail unit (RTU) for low-level bombing missions, and a ballistic tail unit (BTU) for high altitude runs.



    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    A general purpose bomb (GPB) i.e one that is can feature fragmenting, blast and concrete penetration type warheads. It is designed for carriage at up to Mach 1.1 by aircraft of both Russian and Western origin in the IAF’s inventory. This bomb is designed to be used against targets such as runways, bridges, docks, bunkers and railway tracks. It utilizes a high explosiv (HE) Dentex filling as its main charge.



    250Kg High Speed Low Drag Bomb
    [​IMG]

    A lighter version of the 450Kg HSLD bomb. Its RTU equipped version has been accepted by the IAF while the BTU version has completed trials and is awaiting intduction.



    Precision Guided 450kg HSLD
    [​IMG]

    The precision guided variant of the general purpose 450Kg HSLD, it is designed for use with a HE fragmention type warhead utilizing an AVU-ETM fuze. Designed to be carried by the the Su-30 MKI and LCA Tejas platforms, this bomb features a nose extension unit (NSE) and a smart tail unit (STU). Fixed canards on the nose provide lift and stability. The unit also houses a semi-active laser seeker and an anti-jamming GPS antenna. The STU comprises four individually controlled fins and houses a flight control unit (FCU) and a telemetry module. A fibre-optic gyro (FOG) based INS-GPS module and a GPS antenna for guidance and electrically initiated thermal battery complete the system. A MIL 1553B interface provides initial alignment guidance to the FOG based GPS to cue the bomb. The on-board two-axis gimballed laser has a range of 4 kilometres (km) with a field of vision (FOV) of 20 degrees. Standoff range for the bomb is an estimated 30 km when released from a height of 10 km and nearly 13.5 km when dropped from an altitude of 2 km. This bomb also has a ±30 degrees off boresight release capability.



    500Kg General Purpose HSLD Bomb
    [​IMG]

    A general purpose bomb with blast, fragmentation and concrete penetration warheads, it can be utilized to target bridges, runways, railway tracks, bunkers and docks. The main charge of this bomb is a Torpex-4B filling with a RDX booster.This bomb underwent carriage trials on-board a Su-30 MKI earlier this year, with the carrying aircraft touching the bomb’s carriage limits of Mach 0.85 speed at 150 metre altitude. The carrying Su-30 MKI also pulled 6.5 g with a GPB unit, besides full roll manoeuvres. it seems the structural integrity of the bomb was found to be satisfactory after the trials.

    Precision Guided 500Kg HSLD Bomb
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Designated PGHSLD-500, this is the ‘smart’ version of the 500 Kg GPB. Both its carriage, as well as carriage and release trials (CRTs) were succesfully completed a few months ago. One example with sensors and data loggers for carriage trials and another with GPS and telemetry for CRTs were trialed on Su-30 MKI aircraft from 32 Wing, AF Station, Jodhpur. A release test was performed from an altitude of 5 km, at an airspeed of 900 km/h, with high speed cameras recording the safe weapon separation of the example deployed (See above).

    http://www.delhidefencereview.com/2...de-munitions-boost-indian-airforce-firepower/
     
    Sancho, Schwifty, Sathya and 5 others like this.
  13. kurup

    kurup 2nd Lieutant IDF NewBie

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2010
    Messages:
    300
    Likes Received:
    418
    What is the need of a 450kg HSLD/PGHSLD when there is a 500kg one ??
     
  14. stephen cohen

    stephen cohen Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2016
    Messages:
    874
    Likes Received:
    1,087
    Country Flag:
    India
    Some years Back there was a news of One Ton Glide Bomb with 100 Km Range

    Which of these is that One Ton Glide Bomb

    https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/ind...one-ton-glide-bomb-why-thats-important-715505
     
  15. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog IDF NewBie

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2011
    Messages:
    2,958
    Likes Received:
    5,851
    Country Flag:
    India

Share This Page