Dismiss Notice
Welcome to IDF- Indian Defence Forum , register for free to join this friendly community of defence enthusiastic from around the world. Make your opinion heard and appreciated.

Indian Navy LPD/LHD Program

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by seiko, Oct 14, 2016.

  1. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Captain Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2016
    Messages:
    1,840
    Likes Received:
    3,453
    Country Flag:
    India
    Dokodo is out. The Koreans are having a fair bit of problems.

    BAE, DCNS,Navanatia and Ficanteri are the only serious contenders.

    Out of which it seems we have selected DCNS and Navanatia.
     
    Inactive and PARIKRAMA like this.
  2. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Captain Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2016
    Messages:
    1,840
    Likes Received:
    3,453
    Country Flag:
    India
    LHD/LPD/LHA/LHD its all relative to the nations and keeps changing.
     
    Inactive and PARIKRAMA like this.
  3. seiko

    seiko VETERAN FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Messages:
    654
    Likes Received:
    915
    All those three LPDs are potent enough and Mistral gives an additional advantage to SAM as well if I am not wrong. Now I am interested about the helis for that..Why V22? Why cant we go for Chinook..atleast we have commanality with airforce na..
     
    Inactive likes this.
  4. seiko

    seiko VETERAN FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Messages:
    654
    Likes Received:
    915

    Dokodo was Korean? I was thinking it was Japanese.. I need to read a lot before commenting :facepalm:
     
    Inactive likes this.
  5. surya kiran

    surya kiran 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2011
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    90
    Dokdo was designed by the same company ABG had tied up with.
     
    Inactive and seiko like this.
  6. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2016
    Messages:
    1,259
    Likes Received:
    5,257
    Country Flag:
    India
    You want for troops carrier, ASW needs, AEW needs, hostile territory insertion.. for what?

    if its for insertion and troops carrier its fine .. Chinooks do operate from decks.. but they are pretty big and not foldable like V22s..

    But they dont do multiple things.. An example is V22 platform can be used for AEW.. its underwing pylons can carry missiles, rockets and torpedoes..

    Yes commonality gives Chinooks an edge.. but a unit operating out of LPD/LHD, marine forces will be a elite unit with limited manpower inserted in hostile drop zones.. we might see a combo of that..

    an example is this
    [​IMG]

    upload_2016-10-17_23-47-21.png
    [​IMG]
    25 hangar+ 6 deck = 31 pure helo config

    Normally its a mix of 11 Fixed Wing+ 12 Helos in hangar and 6 flight deck with fixed wing/helos

    whereas Dokdo
    South Korea
    [​IMG]
    The ROKS Dokdo is a an amphibious ship capable of launching air and naval assaults. Measuring 653 feet long and displacing 18,800 tons, Dokdo is the largest warship ever built for the Republic of Korea Navy.

    ROKS Dokdo's full-length flight deck can handle up to five helicopters at once. She has a internal hangar bay just under the flight deck and two large elevators for shuttling helicopters back and forth. The ship can send up to ten UH-60 Blackhawk troop-carrying helicopters into action at a time.
    http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/navy-ships/g2412/a-global-roundup-of-aircraft-carriers/
    10+5 in deck = 15 only helos

    and the Mistral
    [​IMG]
    16 helos+ 5 in deck = 21 helos only


    These are all heavy helos.. Light helos can almost double the number in hangar for all.. or a mix of both can increase the numbers overall
     
    R!CK, Inactive, Techy and 2 others like this.
  7. Inactive

    Inactive Guest

    What was out was similar/larger than Austin Class - INS JALASHWA. That is all that was mentioned.
     
  8. MilSpec

    MilSpec Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
    Messages:
    809
    Likes Received:
    1,425
    Country Flag:
    India
    Maybe a stupid question, how does the ship pump out the water from the dock bay, after releasing the landing ships. How do they mitigate hard water issues on pumps and the piping?
     
    Inactive likes this.
  9. Inactive

    Inactive Guest


    Take a guess:

    1. They use water pumps to pump out water.

    2. They use ballast tanks to facilitate the 'emptying'

    3. Penal Parties empty using pails
     
    R!CK likes this.
  10. R!CK

    R!CK 2nd Lieutant Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2016
    Messages:
    392
    Likes Received:
    1,075
    Country Flag:
    India
    "The U.S. Navy retired the type on 24 September 2004, replacing it with the MH-60S Seahawk; the Marine Corps maintained its fleet as the MV-22 Osprey was fielded. In March 2006 Marine Medium Helicopter Squadron 263 (HMM-263) was deactivated and redesignated VMM-263 to serve as the first MV-22 squadron. The replacement process continued through the other medium helicopter squadrons into 2014. On 5 October 2014, the Sea Knight performed its final service flight with the U.S. Marine Corps at Marine Corps Air Station Miramar. HMM-364 was the last squadron to use it outside the United States, landing it aboard the USS America (LHA-6) on her maiden transit. On 9 April 2015, the CH-46 was retired by the Marine Medium Helicopter Training Squadron 164, the last Marine Corps squadron to transition to the MV-22.[26][27] The USMC retired the CH-46 on 1 August 2015 in a ceremony at the Udvar-Hazy Center near Washington DC."

    As already stated in the thread and in addition, the Chinook's bigger foot print on the deck as well as continued technical issues made it a less suitable platform option for deck operations. USMC prefers the CH-53 helicopters over Chinooks and even the smaller MH-60S was used as a replacement for sea Chinooks aka sea knights.

    [​IMG]

    Also consider the fact that it is not right to compare Chinook with V-22 as they are a unique breed of aircraft. A V-22 Osprey is essentially a small propeller aircraft that is capable of VTOL in a ship. There isn't a helicopter that can provide the same payload of an Osprey with the speed it can attain. The Osprey design will in future see more versions apart from the carrier on-board delivery to AW&C and Air-Refueller versions. The possibilities are endless with these aircraft. But yes capability comes at a cost, so basic math of capability vs cost is required. However my personal thought on the fact is, future will see India become one of the biggest operators of these aircraft outside US. Its just the matter of when the first lot will be ordered. The future will see American and other western hardware take over the Heavy Assault and Transport requirements of Indian armed forces.

    My personal watch-list on future Indian versions: AH-64, CH-47, V-22, C-295.

    Good Day all!
     
    PARIKRAMA and Inactive like this.
  11. R!CK

    R!CK 2nd Lieutant Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2016
    Messages:
    392
    Likes Received:
    1,075
    Country Flag:
    India
    Outstanding post as always!

    Good Day to you!
     
    PARIKRAMA and Inactive like this.
  12. MilSpec

    MilSpec Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
    Messages:
    809
    Likes Received:
    1,425
    Country Flag:
    India
    I had some trouble last time pumping Sea water at a job and had to device a modular pump setup for the scaling, that's why I asked.
     
    PARIKRAMA, Inactive and R!CK like this.
  13. seiko

    seiko VETERAN FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Messages:
    654
    Likes Received:
    915
    @PARIKRAMA @R!CK

    Just a doubt! Isnt V-22 having lot of technical issues than that of Chinook?
     
    PARIKRAMA likes this.
  14. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2016
    Messages:
    1,259
    Likes Received:
    5,257
    Country Flag:
    India
    in the initial time, the number of operation-able V22 were limited and thus the teething issues were far far more visible.. A tilt rotor with emphasis to take on multiple roles and also started first in marine forces , it was hard pressed and used , rather correct term is abused properly to give a feedback.. a time was there when its CPFH was in massive $60K + kind of numbers bcz they were limited in number and the support system was not in proper condition .. In last 3+ years, Boeing has been supplementing it very well.. if you follow V22 program you will see it had issues in landing, hydraulic failures and most importantly in hostile landing zones or red hot zone sorties as it was not well armed.. fast forward today, guns, rockets, light munitions, torpedoes etc are now integrated..

    You see crashes which killed marines (i think 30+ in multiple crashes) served as a reminder to the whole project where they went wrong and corrected the intrinsic stuff.. Since the budget program has not curtailed V22 program and its proving its mettle in Afghanistan day in and out, its fan base is slowly increasing.. A platform able to do troop insertion, AEW, ASW roles, transport etc all common means multi prong possibilities .. it such a flexibility which makes it attractive for any amphibious navy to look at V22 seriously.

    Chinooks are awesome no doubt but its role gets limited here.. But Boeing should be able to replicate the same success level like chinooks in say 3 decades from now for V22. It just needs a couple of big customers.. This is where India comes in and a possible sizeable number will see a proper Make In India possibility which augurs well and fits PM vision..
     
    R!CK, Inactive and seiko like this.
  15. seiko

    seiko VETERAN FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Messages:
    654
    Likes Received:
    915

    If we are going for CH53 E , Does it have any advantage over V22,?
     
    PARIKRAMA likes this.

Share This Page