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Indian Navy LPD/LHD Program

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by seiko, Oct 14, 2016.

  1. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    Just for context, this deal would catapult the IN with an almost non-existent amphibious capability and experience currently, into the world's 4th/5th most capable (on paper) amphibious assualt navy.

    4 Mistrals/Juan Carlos would be a HUGE addtion in such a short span of time, consider the French themselves only have 3 Mistrals for their own navy and the Royal navy has only 2 LHD. These are two nations/navies with a famed amphibious assualt history with marine infantry well regarded in their own right.

    The Indian navy has neither the expertise of experience, they are very much running before they have even begun crawling.
     
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  2. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    You are off.

    Will be creating a write up in few weeks time, you will understand it then.

    As for experience, three exercises in 5 months so far .. integrated tri-services ones with one HADR (Humanitarian Aid & Disaster Relief)
     
  3. Sancho

    Sancho Major Technical Analyst

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    @Ankit Kumar 001

    I always wondered how often IN actually used the INS Jalashwa in a real mission and not only for exercise reasons.
    As far as I recall, only in Libya right?
     
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  4. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    On one hand

    Need to ask the Question what is need for the LPD other than Amphibous landing? it is also peacekeeping, disaster relief and ASW (possible) , the latter 2 uses is more relevant in context to Yemen (and many disaster relief). This leads me to ask, why INS Jalashwa not used? Since this is Ex USN , are there string attached?

    On the Other Hand

    Our Lead Ships and Aux are flying outdated machines and the lack of any new Platform , If the LPD comes - what will fly from her?? Case and point is the Izumo Class, capacity for 28 frames and only now 9 frames are flying from her deck
     
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  5. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    As per the terms and conditions of sale, it was only meant for Humanitarian Assistance. Now, it has been revoked by India. We will use it for all missions as desired.
     
  6. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major Technical Analyst

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    Up till end of 2015 , there were news about it getting a minor refit and a new navigation radar and a communication system from BEL. But haven't heard about it since then.

    For most of the time last year , it was docked in Vizag.

    But its medical facilities have been improved and last year it was kept on standby where in within 48 hours of prediction of cyclone it could be dispatched to aid evacuation and health support services after the cyclone has crossed.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
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  7. Sathya

    Sathya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    I think at every thread, I ll be missing M Parrikar.
     
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  8. Sancho

    Sancho Major Technical Analyst

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    That's what my feeling was as well and in theory it might be good to have it, but the simple truth is, India is not the USA, not a NATO country!

    We are not projecting power to other parts of the world beyond the IOR
    We are not using amphibious landing capabilities in UN or humanitarian missions (but sending mainly transport aircrafts or smaller ships like in Iraq, Maldives, or the Philippines)
    We are not even attacking China or Pakistan with amphibious attacks (because the coastlines are too well defended for such a small force and reachable by land anyway)
    Any disaster in India and neighboring countries would be supported by IAF and IA
    And even in ASW or anti piracy roles, where it would make sense to cover wider areas, we don't use it.

    All we do, is training and waiting for an attack or disaster on A&N. Even 2 LPDs would be a waste at this point, let alone 4 or even LHDs
    But even then, IN would probably use it's aircraft carriers in the first place, simply by the fact that they can carry more helicopters and support for attack or humanitarian operations.
     
  9. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    I look foreword to it sir but unless you are going to reveal the IN has been secretly training up a marine infantry force with a division strength with intergrated armoured, aviation and arty I don't think much of what I have said will diminsh.

    The IA has no business in having the amphibious assualt role for the Indian Mil and as expected they place little emphasis in this niche capability for its few amphibious units.

    For HADR ops LHD/LPD are FAR more suited.
     
  10. Sancho

    Sancho Major Technical Analyst

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    Only if you use landing vessels, other than that there is no advantage. The carrier has more take off / landing spots and can carry a higher number of helicopters than LPDS. Can recover more people and should medical capabilities to treat more people.

    We should use the money more on more capable aircrafts for the carriers. Get some V22 transport tankers and add roll on roll of ASW / AEW capability and you can not only support air combats and ASW roles, but also disaster relief missions in a much more efficient way.
     
  11. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    Well the LPD/LHD has the advantadge of having a dedicated compliment of highly trained experts (ie the embarked soldiers) and will also likely be able to accomodate more passengers whilst a fully loaded carrier will have minimal excess accomadation. Furthermore, in many cases a LPD/LHD will be able to get closer to shore.

    I'm also not convinced that an operational IN carrier will have more relevent aviation assets, at most they wil have 4-5 SAR helos (NLUH and maybe a couple of 10-12 ton NMRHs) but a future IN LHD/LPD will permanently have 10+ helos embarked (well below what they can actually embark but I am factoring in the crisis with aviationa ssets the IN will have for the forseeable future). An LHD by nature is designed to accomadate more helos than a carrier that will make way for fighters on its deck and hanger.
     
  12. Sancho

    Sancho Major Technical Analyst

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    The same experts can be used on a carrier to, during disaster relief the carrier won't take pilots or their ground crews anyway, just as it would not carry fighters but more helicopters. The whole thing will be a large helicopter carrier, while hangars could be used for transport or medical needs. The only disadvantage would be higher operational costs, but then again, since India is not doing such large scale missions anyway, we don't even use LPDs.

    Wasn't it the disaster relief mission to the Philippines, where we sent a C130, because we had not more medical supplies to use a heavy transport aircraft? Just as we sent tankers to the Maldives crisis:

    https://www.indiannavy.nic.in/content/maldivian-crises-indian-navys-prompt-response
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
  13. Sancho

    Sancho Major Technical Analyst

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    5 landing spots for helicopter
    [​IMG]

    6 on the mistral
    [​IMG]
     
  14. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    We have had Ex Jalprahar 2 in Dec, TROPEX 17 in Jan, and AMPHEX in March. All integrated and all triservices.

    02 Brigades namely Port Blair Brigade and Trivandrum Brigade, are dedicated Amphibious Forces. They get the necessary Armour - Mechanised - Army Air Defence - Detachment from 2 PARA SF, Artillery, Aviation Assets in form of integral Flight of LPD/LSTs plus P-8I, and Airforce assets.

    These were the participating components.

    What do you think it is?:)
     
  15. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major Technical Analyst

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    The Mistral if chosen by India will be 16 meters longer.
    Can that add a additional landing spot for panther like helos ?

    Similarly , for Juan Carlos type , it has 6 landing spots at its 230 meters length, but if in Indian service it would only be 215 meters, wouldn't that mean reduction of 1 landing spot ?
     

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