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Indian Oil Corparations says it is in loss due to lowering of Crude price

Discussion in 'World Economy' started by kiduva21, Feb 14, 2015.

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  1. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Succeeding CFBR between 2025-50 will be the Metallic FBR (MFBRs) rated at 1000 MWe using metallic Pu-U fuel for shorter doubling time (how long it takes a breeder reactor to make an equivalent amount of fissile fuel). MFBRs are expected to be the mainstay of India's nuclear fleet heading towards 2050.

    "India's impetus to nuclear is driven by the fact that it is a non-fuel price-sensitive source that can hold down the cost of electrical energy, unlike fossil fuels."
    Security of supply
    Truth be told Indian SFRs will be competing not so much with water-cooled reactors but with fossil fuel plants that run on imported coal or gas, both of which are proving to be expensive and risky for India. India's impetus to nuclear is driven by the fact that it is a non-fuel price-sensitive source that can hold down the cost of electrical energy, unlike fossil fuels. The chief attraction of SFRs therefore lies in their ability to extend fissile inventories through the use of fertile blankets around the core to generate new fuel, thereby reducing India's future dependence on imported hydrocarbons.

    Even though it is accepted by insiders like C. Ganguly ("An update of Uranium Fuel Cycle and the Challenges") that global uranium sources are plentiful for the next 100 years given current build projections, India's own modest uranium resources are mostly of very low grades (0.03-0.06 U3O8) and occur deep inside the earth. Ganguly believes that even with new mines and milling capacity India could end up importing 90% of the 8000 tonnes of uranium its first stage may need by 2025. Obviously India would not want to swap dependency on foreign oil with dependency on foreign uranium indefinitely, when energy from uranium can be extended by up to 60-70 times through multiple recycling in SFRs.

    Also, the second stage of India's programme is designed to be a bridge to the third stage, that is the deployment of a U-233-Th-232 breeding cycle. The plan is to progressively introduce thorium blankets in Indian SFRs to increase the inventory of fissile U-233 which will then be loaded along with more Th-232 and Pu-239 in thermal breeders like the 300 MWe Advanced Heavy Water Reactor (AHWR) designed by BARC and expected to see construction before 2017 once a site is finalized. India's vast thorium reserves could not only confer energy security but perhaps energy independence as well, besides a durable carbon-competitive industrial economy.

    Commitment to a closed fuel cycle
    India's re-entry into global nuclear trade has therefore only served to expand the scope of its three-stage programme and reinforced its commitment to a closed fuel cycle. This is why all LWR deals with India will have to be accompanied with a 'right to reprocess.'

    Reprocessing is also central to India's spent fuel management philosophy, with advocates such as Raj stating that the waste management burden of spent fuel is reduced by about 200 times in terms of storage space through multiple recycles in SFRs.

    Hippel's outline of the woes of Japan's Rokkasho facility and concerns about vitrifying high level liquid waste (HLLW) therefore do not deter Indian nuclear planners who are determined to set up an industrial scale Integrated Nuclear Recycle Plant to enable the reprocessing of foreign-origin fuel under safeguards. India already operates a few semi-industrial reprocessing plants, including the CORAL facility at IGCAR which has reprocessed fuel discharged at 155,000 MWd/t from India's existing fast breeder test reactor (FBTR) located there. India also has over four decades of experience in the globally established PUREX method and as per Raj's paper, comprehensive R&D activities are underway on pyro-processing, which would make sense when integrated core designs are unveiled for SFRs in the future. An Actinide Separation Demonstration Facility set up by BARC is operational in Tarapur which is in keeping with India's aim of ultimately fissioning minor actinides in SFRs.

    Radiation, regulation and safety
    As India scales up the first stage and moves forward on the use of more radiotoxic fissile sources in the second and third stage, public communication on radiation safety aspects will naturally have to scaled up as well. S.K. Apte ("Environmental Impact on Aquatic Ecosystems, Biodiversity, Agriculture and Human Health") outlines background radiation characteristics across India. Apte argues that given that studies in India have revealed that even relatively high doses of background radiation (up to 45 mGy/yr) have not caused adverse health effects, the ill effects that radiation levels from nuclear plants, which are nearly 100-fold lower, can cause to human populations is anybody's guess. However, S.A. Gadekar and S. Gadekar ("Observations Regarding the Health Impacts of Some Indian Nuclear Installations") stress the need for baseline studies in India with respect to installations and mines to settle such questions conclusively. The book wraps with an analysis of India's nuclear regulatory environment where R. Ramachandran ("Nuclear Safety: The Regulatory Framework") concludes that India's Nuclear Safety Regulatory Authority Bill, 2011 is a satisfactory initial step towards replacing India's Atomic Energy Regulatory Board (AERB) a truly independent nuclear watchdog.

    The credibility of India's nuclear regulatory framework will of course be crucial in the years ahead, since there are plans to site AHWRs built as part of the third stage very close to existing cities in India given their inherent safety characteristics. The book however barely touches upon the third stage of India's nuclear programme. Only a passing mention by Raj indicates that there has been a debate within India's DAE as to the point at which thorium blankets should be introduced in SFRs since this would impinge on their doubling time. The omission of any papers on the third stage in the book is noteworthy especially because one of the chief architects of India's thorium R&D is presently in charge of DAE (R. K. Sinha). Moreover, access to international fissile sources has also opened up vistas for earlier deployment of thorium- based thermal breeders such as the 300 MWe low-enriched uranium variant (LEU) of the AHWR called AHWR-LEU (see also www. tinyurl.com/o3kgjcc). Indian R&D of molten salt reactors and accelerator-driven sub-critical systems has also gained pace in recent times and these may also contribute to earlier use of Th-232 in India's programme.

    New direction?
    Newer directions in the Indian programme such as design completion of an indigenous 900 MWe PWR have implications for India's future fleet mix as well. These developments all have linkages to India's expansion of its gas centrifuge enrichment programme with a new industrial-scale plant planned for Chitradurga, for which India wants non- proliferation trade restrictions lifted.

    "Going forward it is clear that India's nuclear imports will need a domestic supply chain to stay competitive"
    Owing to its restricted origin, the book is not a comprehensive guide to India's nuclear programme. It does not detail changing plant economics in terms of added capital costs on account of safety reinforcement post-Fukushima. KKNP-I has not just seen schedule overruns but a cost overruns of some 30 percent to finally come in at $1.5 billion dollars at current exchange rates. Going forward it is clear that India's nuclear imports will need a domestic supply chain to stay competitive with even plants burning foreign coal. It is here that an India-Japan civil nuclear agreement expected to be signed by India's new Narendra Modi-led BJP government assumes significance.

    India's new government has of course promised to operationalize India's existing civil nuclear agreements, meaning a push towards building imported LWRs. However it remains to be seen whether the Americans will accept India's liability regime the way the Russians and now even the French have.

    Safety standards
    Though the Tarapur 1&2 BWRs are very similar to Fukushima Daiichi, they have gone through various safety uprates over the years in keeping with India's adoption of the standard defence- in-depth approach to nuclear safety as outlined by S. A. Bhardwaj ("Nuclear Reactor Safety"). Bhardwaj stresses that Indian plants use the double containment concept, one enveloping the other with the intervening space maintained at vacuum to reduce leak probability close to zero. The use of the thermosyphon effect, which involves a crash cool-down from steam generators in case of a loss of coolant accident (LOCA) under blackout conditions, is also a standard feature in Indian reactors. In fact this feature proved invaluable during the INES level III incident that took place at Narora Atomic Power Station in 1993.

    The two VVER-1000s at Kudankulam of course boast some of the latest safety features standardized in Generation III designs including hermetically-sealed double containment, passive decay heat removal, redundant safety systems, additional shut down systems and a core catcher. Most of these safety features will be found on all future Indian LWRs.

    Author information
    Saurav Jha is the author of The Upside Down Book of Nuclear Power (HarperCollins 2010). He can be reached at sjha1618@gmail.com.
     
  2. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    @Paliwal Warrior, I had earlier posted that MMS under Italian waitress orders did not release funds in 2005 to make the thorium reactor and that is how he had tried to sabotage indian atomic energy future and make us dependent on western world forever. NaMo released the money the moment he took over as PM. BJP is very clear abt what it sees as the future of India and you might recall Shakti-2 in Pokhran in 1998. IAEC comes directly under PMO. I hope you know that.
     
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  3. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    Common People think that Lower Price of Crude will lower the price of Petrol or Diesel. But they tend to forget that lower price of crude beyond certain level incurs lose as the cost of refinement would slash their profits or may even eat into the principle cost
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2015
  4. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    How good is AAP in its mathematics and economic knowledge can be judged from the fact that they had asked for reduction of fuel prices in line with reduction of crude prices and god save this nation if we have some more such idiots coming to power in states.
    The cost of fuel at pump consists of, crude price+transportation of this crude to india+transportation to refinery+refining cost+loses in refining+transportation to pumps of refined products+loses in transportation+pump owner commission.
    Now central govt taxes are levied on crude price and VAT is levied by states on finished product. Parrikar had reduced taxes to zero in his state on fuel. Let me see AAP do that in Delhi.

    SO even if we get crude at zero cost, we can't sell fuel free just bcoz crude is free. for AAPIAN APES this maths is extremely difficult to understand. All they know is to mislead people who have similar brains as them which is zero. so all mufat main becho aur cost kee chinta mat karo.
    Mufat ka chandan, ghiss meray nandan.
     
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  5. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    Well all we can say is people have given mandate to such leaders, we shall see the results of their ignorance very soon.
     
  6. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    What AAP plans do is that they will borrow heavily from RBI and make Delhi economy sick. They did that in their 49day circus when Delhi had a budget surplus of 53 crores and they left Delhi in red by 200 crores. DJB has losses of 1000 crores and now they are going to loose revenue. The same AAP had got 10k electricity meters examined in their 49 day nautanki and not even one was found running fast as they call it.
     
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  7. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Pls check out the statement of this IITIAN+IRS officer called Khujli who made an election speech asking why the price of fuel in delhi not been reduced by 60% in accordance with reduction of crude price. Now he is CM of Delhi and I urge him to reduce the VAT on Fuel and make it zero.
     
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  8. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    You are fuming on the ignorance Vstol'ji.... Give it time it will show in their progress that what mistakes they have done.
     
  9. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Giving them time means they will kill us all and again say-Sorry.
     
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  10. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    my point is we are not lagging in thorium research

    even if we build one 200 MW thorium reactor it is not making much of a difference

    wothout uranium - we are not going to benefit with thorium

    until we have Uranium supllied tied up - we are not going anywhere in thorium reactors
     
  11. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    Uranium supply is not going to be tied up with the deal that has been made. We dont have reprocessing rights. Last Govt. was sitting and sleeping or deliberately made India dependent for energy after 2025.
     
  12. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    but of course when crude price is falling increasing the excise on petrol product does not help does it now ?
    fuels have an cascading effect on the economy
    if fuel is kept costly by increasing duties & levies

    it will make

    fuel tranportation costlier
    personal transportation costlier
    goods tranpostation costlier
    power costlier ( when obtained by DG sets that run on diesel)
    will make agriculture costliers as all tractors & tillers pumpsets in farms run on diesels

    so maybe AAP maths on fuel pricing the nos dont add up but thier concept is correct

    i hope BJP realises the same
     
  13. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    I also agreed to this point that you need uranium to start thorium cycle but than you grow more uranium from thorium in the reactor and once you have sufficient number of reactors of thorium cycle, you won't need uranium imports. That is what even that article which you posted stated.
    Just like we sow seeds to grow a crop, we will need uranium as seed for thorium but after a particular point, the uranium grown in thorium reactors as a by product of reaction will be sufficient to feed & take care of all our uranium needs, Plutonium needs and weapons.
     
  14. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    the same thing was said after 49 days govt

    the people have replied they liked the 49 day rule
     
  15. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Are you aware of the subsidy given to agricultural sector in India and how is it funded? Do you know our food subsidy bill and how is it funded?
    once we reduce all taxes, we will not be able to support the farmer so they will get cheap fuel to commit suicides for want of cheap seeds and urea.
    This is AAP mathematics. Marna hai toh sastay yaa mufat kay tail say jal kar maro. They will be giving subsidy to even commit suicide to farmers.
     
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