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Indian Railways Junction

Discussion in 'World Economy' started by anant_s, Nov 1, 2016.

  1. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Captain Technical Analyst

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    The first units of GE WDG4G [around 100] are to be directly imported , and they will start coming in 2018.
    And we have a improved WAG9 [Presently 6350 HP ] also under development.
     
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  2. Nilgiri

    Nilgiri Lieutenant GEO STRATEGIC ANALYST

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    This was actually going through the govt cycles sometime back by Suresh Prabhu and cpl other railway thinktanks (and even started to get discussed/proposed as far back as under D.V.S Gowda in the 1st modi year itself)....so I knew it was on the anvil...just wasnt sure what the speed of its implementation would be overall. I think BJP overall is now confident of their secure mandate and will push the gas pedal on such things as a result. No need to wait for 2nd modi term, get it done now.

    The overall quicker flexibility/reforms is helped a lot by DBT now being available under Aadhar...should it be needed (and better low fare for economic disadvantaged groups can be done in a tailored and efficient way compared to before).
     
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  3. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Captain Technical Analyst

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    @Abingdonboy @Nilgiri @PARIKRAMA @anant_s

    Updates on Madhepura loco factory.

    1. Submission of design to RDSO has been completed.
    2. First 12000HP loco expected to roll out by Feb 2018
    3. First phase of the factory expected to be operational by the 4th quarter of current calendar year.
    4. Maintenance depot at Saharanpur is under construction,expected to be ready by Feb 2018.
    5. 2 substations 132/33kV,132/25kV are under construction at the factory site.The work of 132kV transmission line from existing grid station to the 2 substations along with the 2 substations is expected to be completed in the present calendar year.
    6. By this year end we should expect to see the first 10 of these locomotives 12,000HP , which are to be directly imported.

    Credits :- SachinBuddhiSagar
     
  4. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Captain Technical Analyst

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    The WDFC's locos were to be 9,000 HP.
     
  5. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Captain Technical Analyst

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    Its not like they necessarily needed to be. As there are Japanese investments in WDFC, Japanese wanted us to buy their locomotives too. But it didn't happen.

    The Alstom 12,000HP, WAG9s and WDG4D/G are equally capable.
     
  6. anant_s

    anant_s Encyclopedia Technical Analyst

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    @Ankit Kumar 001 @Abingdonboy
    Trains on WDFS are much lighter (~5000-6000 Tons) as compared to EDFC. As a result tractive effort and corresponding HP requirements are also lower. WAG 9H variant will increase speed by around 25 kph whereas increasing the pulling effort only marginally.
    upload_2017-3-22_18-42-51.png

    upload_2017-3-22_18-42-34.png

    The idea is to increase speed using High rise OHE available on WDFC.
    Japanese Locos (which are scrapped for all practical purposes right now) had larger weight and hence could've provided greater pulling force for same HP.
    WAG 9H 9000 HP variant will increase stabilizing speed but will be under utilization of Higher Axle load provisions available on DFC.
    In my view, WAG 9H 9000 HP is a stop gap arrangement. We can expect to see another open tender soon.
     
  7. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Captain Technical Analyst

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    This is what I thought and it is a serious concern, 10s of billions have been spent on WDFC, if it isn't used optimally then it is a huge waste of resources. The WDFC has been designed specifically to have higher speeds, high axle loads and double stacked container cargo (this was explicitly stated at the start).

    Would the Japanese allow an open tender though? Thus far the entire problem has been their insistance the IR uses Japanese locos for the WDFC otherwise the IR would simply have ordered more Prima-2s (with downgraded HP perhaps) that have been priced at nearly half what the Japense were quoting from the outset. Have the Japnese shown any inclination to step away from their stance? If not then this issue will remain unresolved and will permently hinder such developments for the WDFC.
     
  8. anant_s

    anant_s Encyclopedia Technical Analyst

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    Yes. Although it would require re-negotiation of loan terms and conditions. Under JICA loan T&C almost everything would need to be sources from either Japanese companies or JV of a Japanese and Indian Company. This would mean that India would pay a higher rate of interest on part of cost of locomotives.
    fortunately with Chinese companies dominating world traction market, India has lot of options open in Europe and maybe we can see a surprise from Alsthom shortly!
     
  9. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Captain Technical Analyst

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    Re-negotiations are going to take a while, have you heard any indication that this is being looked at?

    Clearly the IR learnt their lesson for EDFC because they weren't boxed in by the same terms as they are/were for the WDFC and hence were able to go for an open tender but with much of the work having already been done for the WDFC I'm not sure if there is much room for the IR to wiggle out of the T&Cs imposed by JICA.

    Alstom would be the most logical supplier at this point for all DFCs (6) considering the investment they are making in India but I'm not sure that WDFC will be included, it seems the Japanese have the IR over a barrel.
     
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  10. anant_s

    anant_s Encyclopedia Technical Analyst

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    No and that led to failure of negotiations. Hitachi mitsubishi locomotive is all but closed chapter now.
    Last i heard (about 3 months back), IR plans to use WAG 7 and WAG 9 MUeD combination with High reach pantographs on WDFC as backup. However there is a need for 25 Ton/Axle 9000 HP locomotive and IR may float another tender (Open Global this time around) for same. But given Alsthom's fast work for starting WAG 12 (Prima 2 8 axle) locomotive plant, it would be beneficial to use the setup for 6 axle 9000 HP locomotive as well.
     
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  11. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Captain Technical Analyst

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    And this is the crux of the matter bro, it would need the Japanese to agree to this and to step down from their position for this to be able to happen but why would they do that? The IR will have to give something to them in compensation.
     
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  12. Steel

    Steel Lieutenant SENIOR MEMBER

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    I am not sure if this is the right thread to post it.
     

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