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Indian scientist's bullet-proof vest for the army gets government nod

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by randomradio, Jun 6, 2017.

  1. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    This is where I have an axe to grind with champions of indigenous production. Nobody ever writes a fact or owns shortfalls.

    Look at the rifle thread. Members claiming Excalibur did well, Ghatak did well etc etc. Where? The trial was conducted by MHA and it promptly ordered weapons from outside India.

    Look at the CQB weapons being purchased by various state police forces in past few months .. all are foreign.

    If Excalibur and Ghatak were so 'awesome' they would have been inducted by the MHA of the very same GoI which is championing MII. MII seems only to be stuck at Army's requirements. A bloody systematic attempt to make sure Indian Army's procurement remains stuck. Indigenisation seems to crop up only in Armed Forces' acquisition.

    Heck, why does not SPG use Excalibur or Ghatak or Amogh? :D

    Not ONE MEMBER will be able to answer this aspect and instead palm it off to 'politicians'!

    The CAPFs have the flexibility to crib publicly, so you have articles in media of them criticising INSAS and Indian weapons. Ever heard any article wherein people in army are cursing the shit given?
     
  2. nair

    nair Die hard Romeo Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    Not only politicians but also the generals........ By the way i am getting your hints....
     
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  3. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Do a search, everyone reporting.
     
  4. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Generals have no role in procurements. Why are people not able to understand this fact?

    Only way they can get away is proxy advantage ... like heads up to a firm so some consideration. The final call is by bureaucracy and politicians.
     
  5. bharathp

    bharathp Developers Guild Developers -IT and R&D

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    maybe you can give some correct information then :)
     
  6. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Read his first line.

    Isn't that a Bias?
     
  7. bharathp

    bharathp Developers Guild Developers -IT and R&D

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    source other than TOI:
    Lt Gen Subrata Saha, Retired DCOAS
    "
    For the first time Army has published two volumes of Compendium of Problem Statements, which are actually an outcome of detailed interactions that we had with the academia, their interactions with forces deployed in the field and industry. Volume 1 comprising 50 problem statements was released by the Raksha Mantri on December 5, 2016. Volume 2 comprising 28 problem statements was released by the COAS Gen Bipin Rawat on March 24, 2017. The purpose of the problem statements is to seek indigenous solutions to enhance effectiveness of the Indian Army in the varied terrains and environment in which they operate. Both the volumes are hosted on the Indian Army website on the ADB page.

    Some good solutions have been received, which are under deliberation. For example, a proposal for futuristic technology for bullet proof jacket was presented by Dr Shantanu Bhowmik after the Army – Industry – Academia interaction in Coimbatore last year; this was sponsored by us and is now under consideration in an advanced stage as a Technology Development Fund project under the DRDO. Solutions to the problem statements that are coming up shall be taken forward, depending upon their technological readiness level, either as Army Technology Board/Technology Development Fund/Make projects."

    http://bharatshakti.in/win-indian-w...rata-saha-retired-deputy-chief-of-army-staff/
     
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  8. bharathp

    bharathp Developers Guild Developers -IT and R&D

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    its his opinion- of course it is biased - it will be. most opinions are biased because most of us are not privy to "actual" truths. only the truths professed by whatever we hear. so when people who have actual "truths" to share, should do so. Its a request.
     
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  9. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    So, precisely, he was quoted.

    This is what happens when a conversation is joined in by another member whereas the originator is sidelined.
     
  10. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Enough trolling. Enjoy your self off this thread.
     
  11. Fox

    Fox Supreme Overlord FULL MEMBER

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    [​IMG]

    I dunno what's going on here one bit.

    I'd like to see some results on the armor's trials though, that's always good viewing.
     
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  12. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Nothing much. The member was butting in late in the day and simply derailing the gist by circumlocution.
     
  13. SrNair

    SrNair Captain FULL MEMBER

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    No sirji .So far IA wasnt that much supportive towards indigenous efforts.
    Even though there was a personal push up from former General Dalbir Suhag ,the new rifle induction is still no where .
     
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  14. Flyboy!

    Flyboy! Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    This fellow is a genius. Quite surprising hes not a faculty in one of the IITs. Does anyone know what technology of his was approved for MII ? I cant seem to find it.
     
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  15. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Ah you are back. I avoided answering @bharathp as I was unsure as to what it was that you were deriving at.

    You are quite incorrect about IA not being supportive of the indigenisation efforts. Far from it, it has supported indigenisation.

    Start from Individual Protective Equipment. Mk 1 Fabricated from US Army Pattern by Swastik Rubber, Chinchwad, Pune in 1990, a private firm, thanks to efforts of @NS52 . DRDO handed over the same and it was made exclusive domain of DRDO, and they had nil capacity to make them in numbers required. Result: multiple imports conducted in emergent situations like Kargil and Parakaram. Who scuttled self reliance?

    Be it in the arena of Tanks (Arjun was being supported from 1975 till 1996; 02 decades would be fair time to hope for a product of their own, and we know how things played out), or Artillery Guns (Bofors ToT for overall figure of 1500 FH-77s systems was undertaken, army officers asked OFB and GCF to use them to make the weapon systems 1990s onwards, the same OFB and GCF denied possession of the Tech and Blue prints, a blatant lie. About this, I had written in the other forum as early as 2007).

    The best example was of INSAS, a weapon which was inducted inspite of few defects, on the assurance that the same shall be rectified. Fast forward to 2017, it still remains a crappy weapon for CQB, which btw, is our main operational use.

    Allow me to also give you the example of Nag Missile (where is it?; Army had to buy Spike ATGM as the NAG is still being developed), and how can I forget Project BHIM? The SPG was and still remains a crucial component. Since 1997 army's then ADG Perspective Planning was pushing for it. Status: nowhere.

    Need I get QR-SAM? Where is Trishul?

    Let me come to BFSR (Battle Field Surveillance Radars). They are made under license from Poland and Israel. The Batteries of OFB last lesser than original Israeli or Polish ones in High Altitude Cold Weather Areas. This, after OFB fabricated batteries 'keeping in mind IA's requirement for Jammu & Kashmir'. A sick sense of humor on their side?

    Now, the wide held perception, something being stressed upon in this forum too - corruption by officers.

    Yes there is corruption, but way less than in civil society. What is Army? The manifestation of civil society we live in.

    How can you expect an officer, a child of a rickshaw driver or domestic servant for an example only, to not secure his/her interest first? When we hail the achievements of those who are not so fortunate in their background, we must also accept slippages. Not everyone is in this category, mind you. But the agenda to discredit the only organisation in Indian still widely respected, makes sure a single incident is magnified and sensationalised.

    There are people who are fourth generation, who do not even use an official vehicle for official visits, heck there are those who fly private airlines and do not even use the authorised amount to fly, and then there are a couple of first generations, who use their buddies as slaves. This latter group, is invariably found to comprise of those who become officers through ranks through administrative cadre/ACC/Non Technical Commission. They go on a power overdrive. You can verify this from any soldier in Indian Army.

    Sorry to wash the dirty linen in public, but when you attack army, be sure you know what is it that you have to attack.

    The other misconception reinforced by certain ex-service personnel too, is of money paid to generals. It is a blatant lie. If any money is being paid, it is for information on GSQR. Because, army can only make a GSQR, it can not decide on equipment to be procured.

    That is the exclusive domain of MoD, where NO GENERAL is involved. And the funds' expenditure have oversight of CDA (Comptroller of Defence Accounts) Any expenditure from Army Commander's Special Financial Power, promulgated to expedite urgent procurements by circumventing MoD delays, is also under CDA oversight. Why, till date, has not a single case come to light wherein CDA has accused the top hierarchy? Because both the IFA (Intermediate Financial Adviser) and CFA (Chief Financial Adviser) both non-combatants, approve every expenditure based on their own audits.

    Coming back, Kevlar is made in Kanpur. SFs procure best equipment from there. The same is also exported. What stops it's procurement by MoD? Hint: Money unavailable, the Government refrain. Other priorities take precedence then.

    Similarly, this 'new tech', if it proves itself, welcome, otherwise, even TATA has made the ballistic vests which Army has ordered recently. So what is the big game?

    Did you bother to check on MADE IN INDIA body armours?
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
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