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Indian Small Arms Thread

Discussion in 'Tactical Hardware' started by Gessler, May 20, 2017.

  1. Gessler

    Gessler BANNED BANNED

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    Designated marksman rifle WILL be a semi-auto. A bolt-action DMR would mean it would be no different from the sniper's own rifle, except in smaller caliber (if sniper uses .338 and DM uses .308).
     
  2. HarshBardhan

    HarshBardhan FULL MEMBER

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    JVPC REVIEW FROM a warrior who has fired Tavor, AK, Insas and various other weapons in real combat

    POSITIVES

    • It’s a compact weapon.
    • It’s a lightweight weapon.
    • A sturdy weapon.
    • Good holographic sights.
    • It gives a very good feel to the user.
    • It has negligible recoil on both the modes of fire i.e. Burst mode and Single shot mode.
    • Encountered very low rate of stoppages per 1000 round when fired during the tests.

    NEGATIVES

    • Pistol grip could be made much better, current grip could be painful for the user after prolonged use.
    • Extendable buttstock needs to be made much stronger.

    CONCLUSION
    • Overall performance was quite good.
    • A highly recommended weapon for INFANTRY (The Ultimate).



    [​IMG]

    #SHATRUJEET009_EXCLUSIVE

    https://www.facebook.com/shatrujeet...2324991274372/813879215452282/?type=3&theater
     
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  3. Gessler

    Gessler BANNED BANNED

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    @Hellfire ^^ Check that out.

    Also, found another FAB Defense modernized AK, this time with the PTK angled grip:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    I read that.
    Good if the weapon is inducted. My apprehensions remain of QA. INSAS in prototype was awesome. Production was ......
     
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  5. Gessler

    Gessler BANNED BANNED

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    It appears OFB to use the Police/CAPF orders to stabilise quality in production before pitching it to Army again. Glad if it works, if it doesn't :angel:
     
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  6. HELLBENT

    HELLBENT FULL MEMBER

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    Zer0reZ and Gessler like this.
  7. Gessler

    Gessler BANNED BANNED

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  8. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    There was never a wooden stock to MAG 2A1 :)

    It is a tripod mounted MMG used by IA.

    In a chat with @Levina had mentioned only cosmetic changes of putting in a bipod and a stock. Of course they have reduced the length of barrel .. I was expecting them to be reverse.

    On point. At 9.6 kgs why would it pass muster against Negev NG 7 SF at 7.9 and PKM at 7.6?

    My old record will play .... idiots are trying to fool the nation. Even 100 gms weighs a tonne for sustained operations in high altitude and mountainous terrain, where this weapon is required to be used. Army will but definitely reject it as lighter and better options are available ...

    Negev NG7 SF is damn compact.


    And once army rejects, champions of "indigenisation" will scream bloody murder!!!!! Without using the grey cells.

    This is going to be positioned as LMG .. and RFI was pulled because of this!!!

    Ridiculous.
     
  9. Gessler

    Gessler BANNED BANNED

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    I was talking about the previous iteration of this LMG shown :

    [​IMG]

    Haan.

    Isiko sambhalne ka kaam Sunny Deol ne Suniel Shetty ko diya tha. :biggthumpup:

    There's the addition of P-rails too. The model shown on the spec sheet earlier had a vertical grip on the small 6'o clock rail.

    [​IMG]

    IMO, they are approaching this from the wrong direction.

    They're taking a GPMG and trying to make an LMG out of it.

    Look at Negev NG7....they took a real 5.56 LMG and made a 7.62 version of it. That's the simple and straightforward way to go.

    Unfortunately OFB does not have any belt-fed LMG to work with so they decided to play with a GPMG instead. No matter how much they work, they can never achieve a real LMG's light weight...not with the MAG as a base.

    The M240LW from Barrett is the pinnacle of weight-reduction as far as the FN MAG platform goes. And even that is much heavier than NG7.

    [​IMG]

    And even then, they are not stupid enough to market it as a real LMG.

    This is a fruitless endeavour IMHO.

    Without a doubt, that is the best choice for an LMG in 7.62. Even a direct G2G order can be easily justified. But rest assured it won't happen.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
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  10. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    Still a MAG 2A1 based design. How is it different? What am I missing?
     
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  11. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Sorry This OFB LMG is based on which weapon + the Bren is still in use?

    Iconic Sight in WW2

    [​IMG]

    A Gurka with A Bren!
     
  12. Gessler

    Gessler BANNED BANNED

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    If you're talking about the stock, the one in the pic has a wooden version while the latest one in the video has a polymer version.

    If you're talking about the difference between MAG 2A1 and the 'LMG'....well....there doesn't seem to be any difference. :angel: Just same gun, being proposed to fill a different role (alongside few modifications, but neglects the all-important weight issue).

    However they appear to have made the receiver out of lighter materials. Compared to a MAG I'd say the new LMG is definitely lighter...but nowhere as light as a typical LMG needs to be.

    It's based on OFB's MAG 2A1 MMG.

    [​IMG]

    The MAG 2A1 itself is based on the Belgian FN MAG.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_MAG

    The American M240 versions are also developed from the FN MAG.

    [​IMG]

    But all these are basically General Purpose Machine Guns (GPMGs), not Light Machine Guns (LMGs). Only OFB is trying to pass them off as such.

    GPMGs are heavier and meant more for a static position and/or mounted on vehicles. Soldiers who carry GPMGs do not run around as much as those who carry LMGs. In Indian Army, this class of weapon is called Medium Machine Gun (MMG), and so far IA infantry has been using MAG 2A1 in a static, tripod-mounted role. Now OFB wants to put these in hands of mobile infantrymen instead.

    Someone should make those OFB officials carry this so-called 'LMG' along with a 100/200-round belt and make them run 10 kms as punishment.

    See them occasionally in Kashmir mounted on vehicles. Don't remember if they were from Army or other services/CAPFs. Either way it's been a while since I've come across pics of Brens in use.

    @Hellfire can probably help.

    Maybe he can also throw some light on his views regarding a possible LMG version of TAR-21/Tavor 7 AR. Incorporate a longer, heavier barrel, a bipod as standard equipment, and a 60-round drum.....note that this is just me bringing up a hypothetical question based on how INSAS LMG was developed out of the rifle...or how Russian RPKs were made from AKs.

    Most logical option however would be to buy NG7/7-SF. An IA infantry armed with Tavor 7 AR rifles and Negev NG7-SF LMGs atm appears to be an ideal vision for the future. Tagging you also @Abingdonboy

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
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  13. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    Brens are still being used. Although in sector stores only now. Amazing weapon till date. Absolutely love it
     
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  14. Gessler

    Gessler BANNED BANNED

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    Please see the now edited post as well...would love to hear your views on a Tavor LMG.
     
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  15. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Thanks - Now i understand why @Hellfire meant by tripod to bipod!

    Also agree with him - the OFB pretty much didn't do anything other than what you mentioned and hail as if they re-invented the wheel .... why are they fooling people! .

    Still - my money is on - the cancelling/modification of the Tender - thus making sure that this L(M)MMG will be accepted with along with any other and Better LMG - to keep everyone happy expect the IA :(
     
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