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Indian Small Arms Thread

Discussion in 'Tactical Hardware' started by Gessler, May 20, 2017.

  1. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    @Hellfire

    Would the INSAS be good if a private Indian company manufactured it to the same quality as what was tested?
     
  2. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Don't ever try and teach your father how to ****. Your presence is the proof.
    reply to me and tell me where have I asked for any concession for Indian products and also please explain, that in the absence of any such remarks, why have you posted such remarks about those who support made in India products.
     
  3. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    Hellfire pointed out that concessions were made for Indian products and a substandard product was inducted.
     
  4. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    Replied to bold
    What a useless comment if you can not really appreciate how OFB has been producing more tin hats (not used by IA), enamel cups, degchi, plates, enamel cups, needles, nails, shovel, spade as opposed to ammunition, parachutes and IPEs! Do a research then post.


    Who is championing imported weapons? I am championing a free market !!

    See this is where you should not be commenting here at all, only quietly reading. Show where is Tavor being championed? Or where is any weapon being championed? Did you read the EoI? NOOOO, don't make the mistake, or you might just, for once, post relevantly on this topic.;0
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 22, 2017
  5. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    was 7.62 SLR a bad product? it was good for its time just as .303 was for its times. I have fired over 30k rounds from SLR and its podded version in Kirans and Islander aircraft. The gun was a beauty. Now times have changed. SLR was produced by same OFB which is now competing with international manufacturers. As a soldier, I want best weapon in my hand, but how can anyone pass a judgement when the competitive trials are yet to be held?
    @Hellfire, IA had never heard of mud test and water test, IN MARCOS included this test for selecting their guns. We, The Indian Navy has told you how to select a gun. Our MARCOS emerge from water and swamps to target enemy and their guns used to get Jammed due to water and mud ingression in breach. We, The Indian Navy has taught you how to select a gun. All these years of soldiering taught you nothing.
     
  6. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    Exactly. There is a mismatch in the system. On one hand, the armed forces are given directives to 'conserve' ammunition in terms of austerity. I shall give you the example of a Mechanised Infantry officer, who used to fire 4-5 ATGMs in one year for training, now, if he is lucky, he fires one per year. What is his 'currency' for the equipment now?

    On other side, since production needs to taper to 'conserve' ammunition and today, OFB is predominantly making stuff which is readily available at fraction of cost (and here I am seriously talking in terms of Cost Price Per head with relation to costs incurred at costs centres). Then, due to poor corporate practices and poor QA, defects of whole lots of ammunition, produced in a year, are noticed and MGO sends a recall order. Yet there is no corrective measure to calibrate production. End result, no cut down in number of personnel at a cost centre producing zero products in direct use, same costs being incurred at cost centres, and money being rolled out from revenue expenditure for 'paying' stuff like Enamel Cup (WTF!!!) etc.

    I am against maintaining a derelict in the hope of having that derelict active 'if needed'. Most are on pensionable jobs and appointments, yet produce zilch in terms of actual requirements of critical nature

    We are still importing 50-60% of our ammunition, yet not utilising our capability.
     
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  7. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    Exactly.

    My tirade is on this duplicity by RFI in this particular segment. Why the hell are they issuing an EoI if the product is damn good?

    Because, it is in evolution and not great yet.

    If that is so, why the hell are members here jumping and claiming otherwise and 'daring' IA to reject the product?

    That is what is being addressed here. Do not comment on things which are unilaterally being projected, as has been the case of OFB-RFI product right now. May 17 is EOI date. Collate it with their claim of 7.62 x 51 mm weapon in the other thread over this which we have.
     
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  8. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    Does Fair & Lovely make one fairer? :D

    Nope. But in this case, product would have definitely been refined had it been the case.

    Problem plagues our metallurgy - a fact. If you look at the claims of 'IN BEING INDIGENOUS' ---- a bull crap.

    They are indigenous designers (and great ones at it) and excellent integrators with cross sourcing of platforms. Maybe Indian made/foreign made, they take what is required and induct it. Don't waste time trying to develop what they can buy at cheaper rates quickly.

    INS Airavat (LST Hull L24) needed scraping off of rust from deck 5 days out at sea for a visit by the 'Brass'. Painting was done in 30 hours by the Sailors and on board rifle company of infantry . INS Jalashwa (LPD Hull L41) 30 days out, and still going on, no such issues. Why/ How?

    Just an example of the problems within our DPSUs
     
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  9. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    So that is what you understand by mud test? Ok .. now I get why you mess up a thread so oft.
     
  10. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    because now even Indian OFbs and DRDO agencies have been given equal status as any foreign manufacturer. They too now have to compete for orders. This is called levelling the field. No extra points to anyone. Let the best product win. I like it this way. If OFB product is bad, I will be the last Indian on earth to recommend them for my soldiers. Infact not even the last. I will never do it.
     
  11. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    Shhh ..... don't teach him ... he explained mud test. A test where in you get your level down so low that it is the proverbial mud you are in.
     
  12. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    Both of you are saying the same thing. Literally.

    Vstol, Hellfire is arguing against inducting the INSAS rifle without a competition with other 'foreign' rifles.
     
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  13. Ved Mishra

    Ved Mishra Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    I never read such heated arguments even in a divorce case. Lol.

    Considering the GSQRs laid down which are the best available in the world to meet the same in all aspects????

    The ideal situation will be to test foreign and the Indian rifle together in competition.

    Let the best get selected by merit.
     
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  14. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    Show one place where it has been declared useless by me .. :) you might have to spend your life looking for that. I am attacking the posts of members here and in another thread .. where they championed the weapon :D. And am definitely questioning the media reports which have come criticising Army for changing yardstick without knowing the facts and in fact, even in this case, championing this weapon inspite of OFB-RFI looking for a partner for tech integration :biggthumpup:

    Recall I did say that there should be an open competition on a level field ... on a different thread.

    30K? .. I hope you realise you are talking to a land crab :D This ain't a number game here, because you will be at a fraction then ... but then, this need for you to give figures was really ticklish:blink:


    @Hellfire, IA had never heard of mud test and water test, IN MARCOS included this test for selecting their guns. We, The Indian Navy has told you how to select a gun. Our MARCOS emerge from water and swamps to target enemy and their guns used to get Jammed due to water and mud ingression in breach. We, The Indian Navy has taught you how to select a gun. All these years of soldiering taught you nothing.[/QUOTE]

    Yeah? Who trained MARCOS my dear Sir? In 1986, the first batch? :coffee: Hint: One is a member here (@randomradio I have told you about that member extensively)

    LOL

    Yeah right ... SFF was farting:wonttroll: while you raised MARCOS in 1986 who were trained by Infantry's Officer's of the Special Group (then Special Operations Group the progenitor of SG of SFF) then they came from 1970s to 1987 learnt about it and then went back, practiced it for their weapons procurement wherein Vz 58s came into SFF initially and then Para Brigade as they had fire capability after river fording operations with limited submerging in swampy/slushy lands.
    :wink:

    I am left ... :unsure:
     
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  15. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    That's precisely what I stated. Why call people who are in favour Indian product with names and adjectives. I never asked for any "RESERVATION" for Indian product.
     

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