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Indian Small Arms Thread

Discussion in 'Tactical Hardware' started by Gessler, May 20, 2017.

  1. Sathya

    Sathya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Ok let's come to the solution part..

    At what level what should be done to have it right ?

    I am sure every sector needs to face and go through the same problem.
     
  2. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    Don't be a spoilsport ...

    This is fun ....

    My rants have been over OFB/DPSUs getting a preferential treatment .. I am against that. They must sweat it out along with both Private Firms and International Firms. And the best must be taken.

    We got INSAS at Rs 60,000 per weapon and OFB messed it inspite of assuring rectification of errors, just for indigenisation and commonality of weapons.

    On the other hand, an AK-47 (Bulgarian) was available at Rs 15000 per piece.

    We paid 4 times per unit weapon to get a weapon which performed poorly in Kargil, has issues till date and is useless in CQB (TRB being their max rate with firing pin breakage frequently on sustained TRB mode), and was rejected by CAPFs 5-6 years back, but remains mainstay of Armed Forces :D
     
    Sathya likes this.
  3. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Bro, Just be an Indian first. We both have been soldiers and also officers. Please tell me, will we ever ask for an inferior weapon for ourselves or our men?
    India was 25% of world GDP in 18th century and had the most skilled manpower which was very highly divided and made British what they are today.
    Please do not pass a judgement, share your opinion. I have always maintained that Rafale is the best that we cud have had even with reservations about its so called SPECTRA. But I have always stated that it is my Opinion. I never passed a judgement on French people or France as a country or their product.
     
  4. Sathya

    Sathya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    I don't like learnt people to just argue over the past and fail to set their ingenious mind towards the future (solution). ..

    Many of us are learning our country situation and responses through the forum..

    Every bit of info read here is a motivation to some reader..

    I would also like to see positive ideas going through .. And develop through ... like MMRSA and friutify ..
     
  5. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    You will always find me against OFB/DPSUs, because I know how they work (or don't) and I know the price that is paid at times.

    I am not a supporter of indigenisation with only DPSUs/OFBs ruling the roost. I would prefer a foreigner than these scums.

    I have posted facts, about what they have done to maintain a monopoly. Let me be blunt .. they have more HAG bracket people (and retiring in same bracket and hence all the incentives to maintain their 'niche' as sole proprietors of equipment in India) and more no performing ass-ets (HR) than a defunct company or s hell company with ghost employees.

    No accountability, an IAS bureaucrat comes as their Boss .. and the nexus has ruined every effort at indigenisation.

    So, expect no sympathies from me.

    INSAS is crap, it is useless, I always carried a Vz 58 ... I don't trust these SOBs with the lives of an Indian Soldier. Period.
     
  6. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    Hence my quip that if you delve in history you become a relic :)
     
  7. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    This has been your best post so far and very truthful. I salute you to have accepted your own blood and your countrymen as inferior to the world. Now which country will you like to migrate to which in your opinion is superior to India?
    let me know, I will pay not only for first class tickets for your entire family but will also send all your luggage in my own airline.
     
  8. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major REGISTERED

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  9. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    I am 182.5 cms tall, I finish my 5 kms in 23 mins, can traverse an overhang of ice wall of upto 114 Degrees without much difficulty, have gone upto 15 meters into a crevasse just to measure the temperature, sail LASERs, ENTERPRISE and ROW Single SCULLS ...

    Does this irrelevance matter in thread with discussion on 7.62 x 51 mm OFB-RFI product which is claimed as ready but RFI has taken out an EOI for partnership with a foreign collaborator for production of 7.62 x 51 mm Assault Rifle thereby making their own claims hollow?

    I repeat, why do you feel the need to establish your credentials?
     
    Art90 likes this.
  10. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major REGISTERED

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    The 7.62x51 OFB gun.

    When the news came that OFB is ready with a gun [on June 6] , which will be heading to Army Trials. I said that , that particular gun [which is supposed to go to the army trials ] has already been tested by Nagaland Police Force. I posted their review.

    Also posted what the gun felt like. And its from a person of Nagaland Police Force who fired rounds from it , who said its nothing more but a re chambered [and very badly built ] INSAS , and nothing more.

    And when this comes from a State Police Force , Army is not expected to give a different result .
     
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  11. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Did you read the comments of DG Infantry of IA about the same gun? This whole thread has started because of that.
     
  12. Ved Mishra

    Ved Mishra Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Not until it's officially released. Why would Nagaland police test it when it's to be selected by IA
     
  13. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    Same reason why INSAS was also inducted into police force.

    Every OFB weapon being pushed down IA throats has been rejected by CAPFs/MHA teams ...
    ironic ain't it?
     
  14. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major REGISTERED

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    Most of the new products, before heading to Army are given to, North East Forces for a review. Usually Nagaland Police Force or Assam Rifles.

    Excalibur too before going to Army went to Nagaland Police Force.[It received slightly above average reviews, meant good enough for State Police Forces in that avatar. ]

    OFB does it to get a first hand review to make any possible last minute improvements, because Army doesn't give more than 2-3 chances.
     
  15. thesolar65

    thesolar65 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    The Indian Army has rejected home-made assault rifles meant to replace AK-47s and INSAS rifles due to quality issues, sources said. The Ordinance Factory Board manufactured the assault rifles.

    In a major setback to Prime Minister Narendra Modi's Make In India initiative, the Army has rejected home-made 7.62 x51 mm assault rifles that were meant to replace AK-47s and INSAS rifles, the basic weapon used by jawans. NDTV has learnt that the indigenous assault rifle manufactured by the government's Ordinance Factory Board (OFB) failed basic tests last week. It had many faults, according to Army sources, including excessive recoil and "excessive flash and sound signature", which makes the gun indiscreet in combat.

    Sources said a "complete redesigning of the magazine" is needed to make loading the rifle easier. Safety mechanisms were also problematic with the rifle which had an "excessive number of faults and stoppages [during trials] to the extent of more than twenty times the maximum permissible standards."a

    Last year, the Army rejected an earlier indigenous rifle called the Excalibur. According to sources, the 5.56 mm Excalibur does not meet the firepower requirements of the Army. According to sources, "the Excalibur Rifle was considered only as a possible replacement for the in-service 5.56 mm INSAS rifle. Since major shortcomings were noticed during comparative trials, the option was not pursued."

    With no acceptable domestic assault rifle that fits its requirements, the Army is being forced to acquire the weapon through the "Buy and Make Global" route which will see international vendors competing in trials before a shortlist is announced. Then, competitive financial bids take place and the winner of the process needs to tie up with Indian companies to manufacture the bulk of the assault rifles in India, a lengthy process that could take years before the first guns enter service with the Indian Army.

    Tomorrow, key stakeholders from the Army, Air Force, Navy and various branches of the Defence Ministry meet to spell out the precise specifications of the assault rifles that the forces need. The acquisition has already been badly delayed.

    The government had planned to announce a formal Request for Proposal (RFP) for these guns by April this year. For the moment, the armed forces have not even decided on the exact specifications that they require. As they work out these details, 21 gun manufacturers from around the world have signalled their intention to bid for this contract.
    [​IMG]

    The Indian Army last year rejected an earlier indigenous rifle called the Excalibur.

    Soldiers currently use AK-47s and INSAS or Indian Small Arms System rifles, which are made in India, and were inducted in the Army in 1988 and are meant to be replaced this year with deadlier assault rifles of higher calibre, especially for use along borders and in counter-insurgency operations.

    PM Modi's Make In India campaign seeks to boost manufacturing including by building an indigenous defence industry that would involve local private arms manufacturers working with foreign firms. India is the world's largest arms importer. The government is forecast to spend $250 billion on modernisation of its armed forces over the next decade.

    India gets 70 per cent of its arms from abroad. For decades, it has bought off-the-shelf equipment mainly from Russia, which offered to assemble some weaponry locally but little in the way of technology transfers, deemed essential under PM Modi's policies.
    http://indiandefence.com/forums/indian-defence-industry.32/create-thread

    @Abingdonboy @Grevion @Ankit Kumar 001 @Sancho @lca-fan
     

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