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Indian Tender For Next Gen Subs (Project-75I)

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by tariqkhan18, Feb 23, 2011.

  1. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major Technical Analyst

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    Soryu is the 5th best out of the 6 ,so its not like that only Soryu is a Chinese nightmare.
     
  2. Luttapi

    Luttapi FULL MEMBER

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    The Japanese don't transfer technology. If they do soryu should be chosen. They are the best
    The current class, Soryu, builds upon the older Oyashio class, and the two classes form the entirety of the fleet. Each Soryu features a high degree of automation, reducing crew size to nine officers and fifty-six enlisted men—down ten personnel from the Harushio-class of the mid-1990s.

    At 4,200 tons submerged, the nine Soryu-class submarines are the largest submarines built by postwar Japan. Each is 275 feet long and nearly twenty-eight feet wide. They have a range of 6,100 nautical miles and can reportedly dive to a depth of 2,132 feet, or two-fifths of a mile. The Soryu class features an X-shaped tail, reportedly forincreased maneuverability in approaching the seabed. This maximizes the sub’s maneuvering room in shallow and littoral waters, particularly the straits in and around Japan that mark key invasion routes.


    Each submarine has an optronic mast and ZPS-6F surface/low-level air search radar for detection of enemy ASW and maritime patrol craft. As submarines, however, the main sensor is sonar, represented by the Hughes/Oki ZQQ-7 sonar suite incorporating one bow-mounted sonar array and four flank sonar arrays. The subs also have a towed sonar array for rear acoustic detection.

    The Soryu class has six 533-millimeter torpedo tubes mounted in the bow. Armament consists of Type 89 heavyweight homing torpedoes with a range of twenty-seven nautical miles and a maximum operating depth of 2,952 feet. The standard diameter torpedo tubes, along with strong American ties, mean the Soryu is also armed with UGM-84 submarine-launched Harpoon missiles. According to Combat Ships of the World, there are unconfirmed reports that the submarines carry a warshot of thirty weapons instead of the twenty of previous classes. They can also lay mines.

    The Soryus have extensive active defense systems, in the form of the ZLR-3-6 electronic countermeasures suite and two three-inch underwater countermeasures launchers for launching acoustic devices. On the passive side, the entire submarine is covered in acoustic tiling to reduce both the signature of enemy active sonar signals and sounds from the inside the ship.

    Propulsion is what the class is most famous for. Each can make thirteen knots surfaced and twenty knots submerged, powered by twelve Kawasaki 12V 25S diesel engines and one tandem Toshiba electric motor. For silent running, each submarine is equipped with four Stirling V4-275R Mkair independent propulsion systemslicensed from Sweden that can power the submarine underwater for up to two weeks. There are also rumors that the last ships built will trade their AIP units for lithium-ion batteries.

    The Soryu class isn’t perfect, though: one major criticism of the boats during the Australian submarine competitionwas their relatively short operating range. At 6,100 nautical miles, the Soryu’s range wasn’t an issue for their original mission: protecting the home waters of Japan.

    Australian Soryus, however, would have had to travel 3,788 miles from their base at HMAS Stirling just to reach the vicinity of Taiwan, a voyage that would necessitate at least one refueling stop, and probably two. For the Australian bid, the Soryus were to be lengthened six to eight meters for improved crew habitability and increased range, but the need to modify the submarine for Australian requirements likely worked against Japan.

    The combination of long-endurance stealth, sensors, and modern torpedoes and missiles makes the Soryu class an effective hunter-killer. I
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2017
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  3. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Six in fray for Navy’s €8.3-billion advanced submarine project

    Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Kawasaki Heavy Industries, Thyssenkrupp among bidders

    MUMBAI, JULY 19:
    Six advanced submarines, to be built under Project 75(I) to scale up the Navy’s warfare capabilities, are set to get off the starters’ block, with the Navy issuing a Request for Information (RFI) to six foreign original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) for the €8.3-billion submarine project.

    “The Indian Navy has issued an RFI asking competent companies that have independently designed and constructed a modern submarine, which is either currently in service or is undergoing sea trials,” confirmed officials who got the RFI, adding that “the L1 for P-75(I) will most likely be announced only at the end of next year.”

    A surprise contender among the six OEMs is Japan’s leading shipbuilders Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and Kawasaki Heavy Industries, which have been “strongly promoting their technological prowess to win contracts to build India’s next generation of submarines,” said sources.

    Other than Japan, OEMs from Spain, France, Germany, Russia and Sweden are also in the mix, and have been issued the RFI that details the technical requirements the Indian Navy would like in P-75(I), said sources.

    The Navy has issued the RFI to Russian submarine manufacturer Rosoboronexport Rubin Design Bureau, French naval contractor Naval Group (earlier DCNS), Germany’s ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems, Spain’s Navantia and Sweden’s Saab.

    “The manufacture of six next-generation stealth submarines has moved to the crucial next stage with this RFI,” said an official, who bagged the RFI, seeking anonymity. “Qualified OEMs, which are the technology provider, will be issued an expression of interest (EoI) much later by the Indian Navy. This (foreign OEMs) is patented under India’s newly-announced Strategic Partnership Model in the Defence Procurement Procedure 2016,” the official added.

    Technology transfer
    Stating that the long-delayed procedure has got a fresh lease of life with the issuance of the RFI, sources indicated that the foreign OEMs will respond to the RFI “to show how they are qualified to build the six submarines with a partner in India. The OEMs will be transferring important know-how, and actual transfer of technology will be key to ascertain which foreign tech partner teams up with the Indian strategical partner.”

    Sources added that though the basic parameters of importance in the RFI was the Air Independent Propulsion System (AIP), “which is very innovative, though dangerous,” details were also sought on the means to increase the submarines’ “endurance and stealth capability, anti-surface and anti-submarine warfare capability, and land attack capability.”

    Among other things, the OEMs were asked to submit data on the proposed design for torpedo tubes, sources said, which could launch heavy-weight torpedoes, missiles and discharge other weapons. They were also asked to elaborate on the transfer of technology they were willing to undertake with regard to the submarine design and construction. The OEMs were asked to detail their plans for the discharge of offset commitments.

    http://www.thehindubusinessline.com...advanced-submarine-project/article9779029.ece
     
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  4. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    The pool has to take into account the six candidates.
     
  5. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major Technical Analyst

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    Only 4. French, German , Sweden and Russian options.

    Spanish and Japanese options don't come with Long Range Land Attack Capability. Atleast till now.
     
  6. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    My money and hopes are on the French offering the SSK version of the Barracuda.
     
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  7. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    This would be my preferance also and I think this could be a very inteligent way to get some of the Barracuda's features on India's future SSNs BUT there is one major obstacle to this- DCNS won the Australian SSK tender and apparently they have stipulated that India specifically cannot get these boats.

    This seems like game set and match for the French, they can't possibly offer a competitive offer to India with these conditions in place, the most they could offer is a "stretched" Scorpene.
     
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  8. lca-fan

    lca-fan Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Why Japan’s Soryu-Class Submarine offer to India might just turn the heat in the region
    Published July 20, 2017 SOURCE: MANJUNATH REDDDY/ FOR MY TAKE / IDRW.ORG

    [​IMG]

    A Report prepared by ” The Hindu ” if confirmed, then Japanese firms Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and Kawasaki Heavy Industries have both responded to India’s quest for acquiring six new stealth Conventional submarines and will take part in the tender process. Both companies jointly have developed Japan Maritime Self Defense Force’s Soryu-Class Submarines which is considered among deadliest of the Diesel submarine in the production. While report failed to report if Soryu-Class Submarines have been offered to India or Soryu technology based submarine export variant will be on offer it does mark change in Japan’s attitude towards India’s in the export of its weapons. Soryu class in comparison with German 214 or Naval Groups Scorpene, or even with the Russian improved Kilo class Amur submarines, Soryu-class is considerably larger than all the competing submarines thus have longer endurance and weapons carrying capacity. Since BrahMos VL (Vertical Launch ) SLCM (Submarine Launched Cruise Missile ) will be a mandatory addition to all Six submarines to be acquired many Defence Analysts are predicting that Submarines asked under Project-75I will be bigger than Kalvari-class submarines currently under production under earlier Project-75. Soryu class offered to India will definitely be a highly modified one from the original to add Indian weapons systems and other sensors. But it also will raise few eye brows in Bejing since this will be for the first time India and Japan are collaborating on the transfer of high tech offensive equipment’s which will be prescribed has serious threat perception to Chinese Naval Surface and sub-surface fleet in Indian ocean region. Since Soryu class submarines have been developed specifically to Hunt Chinese submarines and Warships, Chinese Navy in particular ranks Soryu class submarines has one of the greatest challenges it will face in the South China Sea and Asia-Pacific to keep its dominance in that part of the region. Modified Soryu class submarines will only increase China’s woes in its ambitions to dominate Indian Ocean region in the guise of protecting its trade and its investments in the region. Even a water-downed export variant of Soryu class submarines developed by India will have that psychological fear factor in the crew of Chinese Naval fleet in Indian ocean region. Whether India buys Soryu class submarines or selects another able candidate from other five bidders in the race to supply Six Next Generation submarines to India it might finally open doors for possible collaboration with India for Japan in other weapons development or transfer which due to Japan’s non-commitment issues were not able to make any headway’s even when both prescribe China has its biggest threat in the region.

    http://idrw.org/why-japans-soryu-cl...dia-might-just-turn-the-heat-in-the-regional/ .
     
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  9. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Are you sure about that clause about "Suffren SSK to India"? Btw, DCNS is working on a possible follow on order of 3 scorpene equipped with indian AIP also.
     
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  10. lca-fan

    lca-fan Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Germany's ThyssenKrupp Marine ready for complete Tech Transfer of Stealth Submarines Saturday, July 22, 2017 By: The Hindu Business Line
    Source Link: CLICK HERE
    [​IMG]

    German conglomerate ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems is banking on its vast experience in design and construction of submarines and the fact that it has delivered subs for coastal and blue water deployment to the navies of 19 countries, to help deliver India’s next-generation submarines, the P-75(I). The Indian Navy had recently flagged off the next stage of P-75(I) by issuing Request For Information (RFI) to foreign Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEMs).

    Even as the Strategic Partnership policy is set to unlock submarine building in the country, ThyssenKrupp is in talks with private Indian shipyards for tie-ups, and is keen to be the foreign OEM of choice for the P75(I) programme. The German submarine specialist had recently landed a contract to modernise two Indian Navy type 209/1500 submarines.

    Lauding the massive technological capability available at Indian shipyards, Gurnad Sodhi, Managing Director, ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems India, spoke to BusinessLine about how the P-75(I) contract would be an important milestone for the company, and how his team is looking forward to integrate any weapon system the Indian Navy may opt for. Edited excerpts:


    Six advanced submarines are to be built under P-75(I). Why is air-independent propulsion (AIP) an enabling factor?

    A crucial factor in non-nuclear submarines is the AIP system. Ever since there have been submarines, the goal has been to extend their diving time.

    AIP helps make this possible, significantly increasing the underwater range and reducing the risk of discovery. Our AIP technology will help boost combat operation capability of India’s stealth vehicles.


    The Indian Navy has announced it would not include its indigenous AIP system in the Scorpene submarines. How can you compete with other foreign OEMs with the AIP technology?

    Most OEMs do not have a proven technology.

    The German AIP is the only proven AIP in the world at present, and is actively being used by many navies worldwide where our boats are operating.

    We have already committed that ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems will be happy to provide complete transfer of technology (ToT) to the Navy for the AIP system for P75(I).


    To enable ToT, do you have any likely Indian partners in the fray?

    We have already built two Type 209 submarines in collaboration with Mazagon Dock Limited (MDL) in the early nineties, and have a good relation with them. The Indian government had last month finalised and elaborated the Strategic Partner of the DPP (Defence Procurement Procedure) 2016.

    We have visited and examined most Indian shipyards — private as well as public —like Larsen and Toubro, Reliance Defence, MDL, Hindustan Shipyard, and Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers, and are aware of the immense technological capability available at each yard.

    We will be happy to collaborate with any shipyard (public or private) with whom the the Indian government wishes us to build our boats in India under P75(I).


    Have you received any indication in this regard?

    We have regular interactions with the Indian Navy, and have amply demonstrated our commitments. Both the Navy and the Indian government are aware of this.


    Has the company undertaken any AIP-related ToT?

    ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems’ air-independent propulsion system is successfully running on our 209PN and 209R, 212A, 214 and Dolphin AIP submarines in six navies across the world — the German, Italian, South Korean, Israeli, Portuguese and Hellenic (Greek) Navies.

    This technology has been exported, and is presently being used for the manufacture of 3 + 6 Type 214 submarines under construction, with complete ToT in South Korea, in collaboration with Hyundai Heavy Industries.
    http://www.defencenews.in/article/G...te-Tech-Transfer-of-Stealth-Submarines-263333
     
  11. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    :blah: No thank you.
    Everyone want to share tech when our development is nearing maturity.
     
  12. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    nair, lca-fan and PARIKRAMA like this.
  13. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Yes. Hopefully it goes ahead. It may not come with Brahmos, but we need the subs regardless.
     
  14. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Are they also banking on their huge capability to organize "leaks" so as to discredit competitors?
     
  15. X_Killer

    X_Killer Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    we should stick with customised Scorpene or else go for SORYU class.
     

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