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Indian Tender For Next Gen Subs (Project-75I)

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by tariqkhan18, Feb 23, 2011.

  1. MilSpec

    MilSpec Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    system vs subsystems
     
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  2. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Which are both the same wrt export policy.
     
  3. MilSpec

    MilSpec Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    but not the same political implications. A political fallout can effect a system, case and point US-F16's and Pakistan. vs radar/hellfire/f100 spares.
     
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  4. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    It's simple. A nuclear submarine needs a steam turbine to run, and we can build it on our own.

    But a diesel-electric sub needs an engine, and we don't have our own engines yet.
     
  5. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    They sanction weapons systems, not engines and such.
     
  6. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Yes, just as sanctions effected the procurement of complete systems as well as subsystems.

    Nope, we couldn't buy spares for Sea King helicopters or Sea Harriers anymore. Weapon sales and even spares for the LGB kits were not available...

    So sanctions or restricted export policies will effect both. The question is only, does that really matter for us?

    We don't have the need to make further nuclear tests anymore and we are neither Iran, Russia that pose a threat to western nations, nor is India so far a dictatorship, that could restrict weapon sales. So I don't really see an issue there anymore and for the topic, the important factor will be others anyway. SP, Scorpene production line, AIP and land attack capability.
     
  7. Blue Marlin

    Blue Marlin 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    the japanese were cheaper but refused tot and wanted them built in japan, same thing with india with the u2's planes heck they were even brave enough to offer their p1 to us but when it came to the nitty gritty they fell on their a$$ and walked away.

    the french won simply because the tech they are using has been fielded and is reliable pakistan is the only country to have the mesma aip which is what the short fin will have, they are known to be more powerful and efficient at high demand. tot, that was critical, the Aussies wont accept non locally produced stuff, they did that with the Canberra class assault ships and the Hobart destroyers and even with the anzac frigate tender. finally price, its with in budget but at the high end with likely over runs.
    also its based of the barracuda so its not exactly untested tech like the type-216 or the a26 on viagra.
     
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  8. Blue Marlin

    Blue Marlin 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    what are the 6 candidates?
     
  9. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Yes, that's why I don't consider the Soryu to have a chance either. The type 216 though is just a larger modification of the U212, just as the short fin is a modification of the Barracuda, but I guess DCNS will offer the Scorpene anyway. Would be nice if we can get some Short Fin or Barracuda hulls and integrate our own nuclear propulsion though. That would open a chance for work for 2 SPs.

    Scorpene
    U216
    A Russian Lada class varient
    The Spanish S80
    Japanese Soryu
    And the Swedish A26
     
  10. Blue Marlin

    Blue Marlin 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    well the short fin and barracuda is very similar except for the propulsion and the suite. heck they can even buy the mdcn.

    as for india this will be another sh!t show simply because india wants the brahmos integrated and that would require a vls and all but the russain designs have no vls?

    personally i would screw the p75i and stick with the scorpene as its easier and there have just gone through the entire production cycle and are being popped out in a on time manner. so its basically a case of buying more licences and viola. and if your nice and pay lots of money to the frenchies they may help with a nuclear propulsion which is what there doing with the Brazilians.
     
  11. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog IDF NewBie

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    No indian official asked for Brahmos on a SSK. Its simply unrealistic to put a 3 ton missile on a SSK.
    Brahmos NG is desired to be fired from torpido tubes. Mdcn is good enough for now.
    Marine reactor will be definitely Russian origin. Possibly bundled with the next kudankulam batch deal.
     
  12. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    The U216 has a Vertical Multi-Purpose Lock which is meant to provide either the capability to launch divers, UAVs or land attack missiles, depending on customer demand.
    But the tender only requires land attack capability and not Brahmos + VLS. That's why the Russians had offered 2 different Amur class variety. One with Brahmos VLS, the other with AIP and Klub missiles.
    Similarly, Scorpene surely will be offered with AIP and naval Scalp, the others possibly with smaller land attack / anti ship missiles.

    By the fact that Brahmos NG will be small enough to replace tube launched Klub missiles, VLS would not be necessary anyway.
     
  13. Blue Marlin

    Blue Marlin 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    will the french even sell the mdcn? and as for the reactor, the current "indian" nuclear sub was designed by the russains and any future sub would be heavily influenced by russain designs.

    i assume the tender is to integrate the brahmos as well which i believe. the nirbhay is perfect but the nirbhay is not so perfect so thats that idea gone. many countries have gone for this approach (even pakistan) not so sure on the aip vls combo on the amur. theres the amur 1900 which should have the vls and the aip (i think)
     
  14. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    That's the point. They sanction very specific stuff. They won't sanction the stuff you listed.
     
  15. halloweene

    halloweene Major MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    yes. But much smaller than aussies future shortfin. mitsubishin never built a big enough to be oceanic sub. Soryu is very good.
     
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