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Indian Tender For Next Gen Subs (Project-75I)

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by tariqkhan18, Feb 23, 2011.

  1. mugundhan

    mugundhan 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Wow indian government issued RFI after ******* seven years. Even this thread is created 7 years back. Add 3 years to reply+ 3 years to test + 2 to select L1 and 2-3 years to negotiate indian specific customization + 3 years to deliver first sub. Wtf
     
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  2. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    It's the usual way if re-issuing a tender several times. In this case it's at least somewhat justifiable, since they wanted to add it to their new SPM policy. The question however is now, will it work as they planned it and does it run into further delays too? It's a new policy, neither privat Indian companies nor OEMs really have a clue yet, how it works out. So let's wait and see.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
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  3. lca-fan

    lca-fan Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    INDIAN INPUTS TO GO INTO MAKING OF NEW, ADVANCED SUBMARINES
    TUESDAY, JULY 25, 2017 BY INDIANDEFENSE NEWS

    [​IMG]

    “We have a big industrial base for advanced equipment for submarines,” said a government source. The OEMs have been given details of the submarine equipment developed by DRDO
    by Shaurya Karanbir Gurung

    NEW DELHI:
    With the issuing of a request for information (RFI) to six foreign firms to build highly lethal and advanced submarines, India is making efforts to ensure that there is maximum indigenous content in the project.
    The firms will have to ensure that there is usage of Indian steel in the submarines,transfer of technology, including the design details and a tie up with an Indian shipyard under the strategic partnership model. The six submarines are believed will be the most advanced submarines in the Indian Ocean Region (IOR).

    [​IMG]

    These type of submarines currently don’t exist and when produced will be their only kind. For India, they will greatly enhance its Navy’s warfare capabilities and be a deterrent to Chinese naval forays in the IOR. Around mid-July, the RFI was issued to the six Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEMs) —France’s DCNS (Naval Group), Germany’s ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems, Sweden’s Saab, Russia’s United Shipbuilding Corporation, Japan’s Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and Spain’s Navantia.
    Sources aware of the RFI said the selected OEM will have to ensure that there is maximum usage of indigenous content in the submarines, without compromising on their standards. “We have a big industrial base for advanced equipment for submarines,” said a government official. The OEMs have been given details of such industries and submarine equipment developed by DRDO that can be considered for the project.
    Sources said that India also wants to use indigenous steel for the construction of submarines. The OEMs will have to determine whether this is possible. Furthermore, the OEMs will have to submit their designs for the submarines and identify the navies which are using the same design. India also wants that through the transfer of technology (ToT) it is able to receive the design details.
    The requirement of ToT is mandatory for the OEMs to move ahead in the project. “The firms will have to detail how much technology they are willing to transfer. They will also have to give measures to support the strategic partnership model by setting up a system for integrating military platforms,” said an official.
    The model aims at choosing Indian private firms as strategic partners to tie up with foreign OEMs to manufacture such platforms. The Project 75 (I) will be the first project under this model. The OEMs will partner Indian shipyards to build submarines.
    Source>>
     
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  4. lca-fan

    lca-fan Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    WILL JAPAN'S MITSUBISHI AND KAWASAKI BUILD INDIA'S NEXT PROJECT 75(I) AIP SUBMARINE?
    TUESDAY, JULY 25, 2017 BY INDIANDEFENSE NEWS

    [​IMG]
    A Soryu-class diesel electric attack submarine
    Japan’s Mitsubish-Kawasaki consortium has received an RFI from the Indian Navy. Where does it lead?


    by Ankit Panda

    The Indian Navy has issued a request-for-information to six overseas manufacturers for an eventual $8 billion contract to build six advanced submarines with air-independent propulsion (AIP) technology under the Project 75(I) initiative.
    “The Indian Navy has issued an RFI asking competent companies that have independently designed and constructed a modern submarine, which is either currently in service or is undergoing sea trials,” Indian officials told the Hindu.
    The final shortlist of six manufacturers to have received the RFI includes ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (Germany), Naval Group (France), Navantia (Spain), Saab (Sweden), Rubin Design Bureau-Amur Shipyard (Russia and Italy), Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and Kawasaki Heavy Industries (Japan).
    The confirmation that Japan’s Mitsubishi-Kawasaki consortium has received an RFI from the Indian Navy is a significant development, if true. As the Diplomat discussed in early 2015, the Indian government had floated a proposal with the Japanese government to this effect more than two years ago. The move came shortly after Japan lifted its decades-long self-imposed ban on weapons exports.
    The Soryu-class submarines built by Mitsubishi and Kawasaki are among the most advanced AIP-equipped diesel-electric submarines. Moreover, inviting Japanese firms to participate in the RFI for the Project 75(I) tender could benefit the broader strategic relationship between India and Japan, which grows closer every year.
    However, Japan and India have long been bogged down in pricing negotiations over the sale of ShinMaywa US-2 amphibious aircraft. The pending deal, once completed, would be Japan’s most significant overseas defense-related sale since the lifting of the self-imposed ban on exports.
    For Mitsubishi and Kawasaki, competing for the Indian Project 75(I) will offer an opportunity to move forward after losing Australia’s SEA-1000 contract to France’s DCNS. The Australian government ultimately chose the Shortfin Barracuda design for its Collins-class replacement, dealing a disappointing defeat to Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe’s government, which had hoped to see its first major overseas arms sale.
    However, the Soryu, while an impressive submarine, appears to be the odd one out of likely offerings from the other five manufacturers. In particular, with a submerged displacement in excess of 4,200 tons, the Soryu is much larger than other offerings ranging from TKMS’ Type 214 (1,860 tons) to Rubin’s advanced Amur-class (1,100 tons).
    The second-largest design would be Naviantia’s S-80 Plus-class submarine, which has a total submerged displacement of 2,426 tons. Mitsubishi and Kawasaki last built a sub-3,000 ton diesel-electric submarine in the 1990s, the Harushio-class.
    Beyond its technical specifications, a Japanese submarine would be a new addition to the Indian Navy’s repertoire, potentially creating longer term maintenance and logistics challenges.
    India already operates German Type 209 (Shishumar-class) submarines, Russian Kilo-class (Sindhughosh-class), and French Scorpene-class (Kalvari-class) submarines; moreover, two of the German-designed submarines, INS Shalki and INS Shankul, were made in India under a technology transfer agreement.
    Despite this mismatch between the Soryu and the other five manufacturer offerings, the Japanese firms may see an edge if they see government backing on technology transfer to India.
    According to the Hindu, the Project 75(I) RFI will require manufacturers to demonstrate that they could build these six submarines with a partner in India under Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s ‘Make in India’ initiative.
    Despite the difficulties that New Delhi and Tokyo have seen in concluding the US-2 sale, the Abe government may enthusiastically support the Mitsubishi-Kawasaki bid for the Indian Project 75(I) contract.
    Source>>
     
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  5. lca-fan

    lca-fan Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Russia, Germany in Race for Indian Navy's $7.8 Billion Submarine Tender
    © AFP 2017/ SEBASTIAN D'SOUZA
    ASIA & PACIFIC
    16:38 24.07.2017Get short URL
    387664
    India’s Ministry of Defense has asked six foreign shipbuilders to respond to the Indian Navy’s long-delayed Project 75 India (P-75I) program, which is worth over $7.8 billion.

    New Delhi (Sputnik) — The request for information (RFI) has been sent to six selected overseas naval shipbuilders asking for details about locally building six diesel-electric submarines under newly-formulated strategic partnership model under which India’s private defense shipbuilder will collaborate with a foreign manufacturer.



    [​IMG]
    © AP PHOTO/ RAFIQ MAQBOOL
    India Begins Sea Trial of Second Indigenous Submarine
    Official sources told Sputnik that Indian Navy had issued RFI on July 19 to Russia’s Rosoboronexport Rubin Design Bureau, France’s Naval Group, Germany’s ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems, Japan’s Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and Kawasaki Heavy Industries, Spain’s Navantia, and Sweden’s Saab.


    Companies will have to respond to the Indian Navy’s request by September 15 this year with operational details of their respective submarines with air-independent propulsion (AIP) systems and anti-surface, anti-submarine and land-attack capabilities.

    “As all these submarines will be non-nuclear, AIP system will play a crucial role in getting Indian Navy’s contract. Companies like ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems, Naval Group are offering their AIP technology to India,” said an industry source.

    This project will provide a major boost to country’s private defense firms like Larsen and Toubro, and Reliance Defence who are waiting since long for this delayed project.

    “Scorpene project was delayed by years due to India’s state-owned shipbuilder MDL was not able to absorb the technology provided by original manufacturer DCNS and also it delayed due to several gray areas presented in the contract. Last time, the government had selected the company and configuration of the submarine, but this time under P75I, the government will shortlist the submarine and then ask the Indian private company to partner with the manufacturers. A number of private sector companies will participate in the bid and whoever gives the best deal will be selected for the project,” Laxman Kumar Behera, Research Fellow at Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses (IDSA), said.



    [​IMG]
    © AFP 2017/ STR
    Russia, India Set to Discuss Creation of Anaerobic Power Unit for Submarines
    It is expected that request for proposal of the project will only be issued after 2019 and the availability of the submarine will take another seven to eight years if everything goes according to plan. But the lack of experience of the private sector in the submarine manufacturing may pose a challenge to complete the project within a fixed time-frame.


    Presently, Indian Navy has 13 diesel-electric submarines in service–9 Kilo-class and four Shishumar (Type 209/1500)-class, but only half of them are operational at any time. India has planned 18 conventional submarines apart from current 13 which are 17 to 31 years old. Two P-75 submarines are expected to join Indian Navy this year.

    https://sputniknews.com/asia/201707241055829448-russia-germany-indian-navy-submarine/
     
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  6. mugundhan

    mugundhan 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    can someone share which indian shipyards are free for this project?
     
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  7. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    All are free .... HSL will be the partner most likely, until and unless GOI goes private route and gives it to either L&T or Pipavav Defence.
     
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  8. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    This might be the biggest chance for Reliance to bag an SPM category. In the fighter sector, they are only setting up infrastructure and logistics, mainly based on the DRAL JV. Here they benefit from Pipavav's already available facilties and know how, which is a much better base to start with. Pipavav also has a JV with DCNS and is afaik jointly offering a product in the LDP tender as well, so the naval sector should be the way to go for Reliance to get a big part of the Indian defence market.

    The question is only, what can L&T do to counter and how impartial can an Indian SP be, in joint offers with foreign OEMs, when they might have JVs with one of them?
    Same issue with Tata and LM in the SE fighter tender. Will be interesting to see, how the MoD wants to deal with that.
     
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  9. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog IDF NewBie

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    HSL will not get this for sure. This RFI is for Strategic Partner. MDL is the only public shipyard is in the race to become one.
    Pipavav have zero experience with submarines.While L&T have atleast a decade of, thanks to Arihant partnership, My bet is on them. MDL will probably get follow on scorpion contract. After all, the whole idea of SPM is to make a competition to the status quo. MDL is the only SSK builder now.

    @Abingdonboy @Gessler @Ankit Kumar 001
     
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  10. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog IDF NewBie

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    Could you give us an idea about L&T's capabilities in stealth submarines.

    Larsen & Toubro has been associated with India’s strategic submarine programme for decades. It was formally announced when INS Arihant was launched in 2009. Our work centres specialise in the construction of submarine hulls with an entire range of in-house developed capabilities that are key to the submarine construction value chain - from detailed design and engineering in digital domain to hull construction using IT-enabled automation.

    We have also developed technologies and matured them to do 3D-assisted outfitting, system integration, to system level qualification tests and trials as proven on classified underwater programmes. These have been developed indigenously given the nature of the programmes and the National endeavour we have been associated with.


    How is the company placed with regard to other Indian competitors in facilitating the P75I contract?

    L&T is the only shipyard in India which has a track record in the construction and integration of the most critical and complex bow, aft and other pressure tight structures, which needs to be imported by other yards. Our indigenous knowledge and technologies are amply proven across underwater programmes.

    L&T is also the System Integrator for DRDO’s Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) system programme. L&T also has a track record in the development of significant platform specific systems such as propulsion systems, engineering systems, control systems and weapon systems for Naval underwater programmes. These capabilities places L&T in a unique position.

    Does the company have the wherewithal to undertake and help with the AIP-related technology for the submarines, which is a major prerequisite of this tender?

    L&T is currently partnering with the DRDO as Lead System Integrator for the indigenous development of the fuel cell based AIP system. This is engineered as a modular package that can be plugged into a platform of choice. This technological solution holds promise to be among the latest and safest evolutions in propulsion technology for conventional submarines for enhanced indiscretion rates.

    (The indiscretion rate refers to the percentage of time a submarine spends when it comes up for air, which also makes it the time when it is the most vulnerable)

    It enhances the endurance of conventional diesel-electric submarines to remain underwater many-folds, thus converting it into a more potent weapon platform with higher indiscretion rate.

    http://www.thehindubusinessline.com...-technology-for-submarines/article9728732.ece
     
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  11. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    I feel like if the GoI threw $7-8 BILLION USD at L&T/DRDO to build a class of SSK with AIP they could do so in a similar time frame that it will take to launch this tender, await responses, evaluate responses, conduct trails on all entrants, evaluate trails, analyse and rank the various contenders, select the winners, negotiate with the respective OEM, sign the contract, work with OEM to get IN specific equipment and await delivery.

    If L&T/DRDO are capable of building SSBN and SSN in-house, wtf is India doing going for the P75(I)? It's pathetic.


    + AFAIK the ATV/Arihant project cost only around $5BN USD.
     
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  12. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major Technical Analyst

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    Reliance will bag LHDs and L&T will get P75I
     
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  13. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    LHD won't be ordered before 2021 IMHO, if IN do they are complete fools.
     
  14. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major Technical Analyst

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    Is it still to be proven ??
     
  15. Gessler

    Gessler Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    No choppers to put on it, for starters.
     
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