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Indian Tender For Next Gen Subs (Project-75I)

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by tariqkhan18, Feb 23, 2011.

  1. Blue Marlin

    Blue Marlin 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    think of it as the t212 as the base class and the 214 basedof the212 the the sentance says the 214 has design principles of the 209 not based of the 209 both differant things. the 216 shares linage to the 212/214 thats it,plus a few new things a top.
     
  2. Gessler

    Gessler Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    So you're telling me Russians were strict about MTCR since 2001 (when BrahMos was first tested with 290km restriction) but in 2016 they suddenly decided to relax?

    Piss off.

    Erm...why're you telling me all this? Fact of the matter is that France sold +300km SCALP version to UAE, a non-MTCR country (and even received flak from US for doing so).

    Babur draws from Chinese tech just like ALL pakistani missiles do. Their BMs, MANPADS, ATGMs have the same story.

    Babur having Chinese engine was revealed by a Pakistani moderator (or maybe it was member The Deterrent, not sure now it was years ago) back on PDF when I prodded him. That makes sense because I don't see pakistan developing an indigenous turbofan engine back in 2005 when even India couldn't.

    If they did develop it indigenously, they by now they should have had a whole range of locally made jet engines (which they clearly don't)....for me it's a stretch to imagine Pak developing a turbofan engine in-house, a far more plausible explanation is that China supplied it. And why wouldn't they - they've been supplying rocket motors for Pak ballistic missiles for decades.
     
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  3. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Because it is based in the design of the former, U212 isn't. The X tail for example is specific to the 212 and the 216, while the U214 shares the design features of the older 206.

    Also theU214 was designed as an export sub, especially with U209 customers in mind. U212 on the other side, was a new design, for the requirements of German and Italian navies.
     
  4. Blue Marlin

    Blue Marlin 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    since india joined the mtcr duh if x country wants the p800 and is a member of the mtcr they will get an export variant, again russia is laxed about it.
    no need to be so bitchy.
    they didn't becuase of the range of the missile but for selling the missile in the first place.

    oh so your getting your facts from some stranger of the internet and taking it as gospel. ok
    i would carry on but it seems i unintentionally struck a nerve
    @PARIKRAMA whats wrong with this guy?

    what im trying to get at which i feel you having difficult digesting is simply the 212 shares its features with the export oriented 214 thats it. the 216 and even the 218 is based of both 212 and 218. forget the 209 thats old and nearing its sell by date and has not relevance in this discussion, yet some countries still buying them even now.
     
  5. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Of course it shares features, like the AIP as I said, because that was developed for the 212 and then added to export customers subs for both, the 209 and the 214. But it doesn't share the design features, because it's a further development of the older export sub.
     
  6. Gessler

    Gessler Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    I distinctly remember you saying this:

    "as for the naval scalp, not gonna happen the missile is above the mtcr regs <=300km <=500kg warhead. just because you join the group does not make you an exception."

    And now you're saying that being an MTCR member DOES make a difference.

    You just go back and forth on statements just like that?

    They sure weren't lax about restricting BrahMos range at 290km when India wasn't a member of MTCR.

    Russia isn't lax about anything. They're following the rules as set by them.

    In fact if anyone is lax here - it is France. It was the French who sold 500+ km SCALP to UAE, who is NOT an MTCR member even.

    And you need not be so stupid.

    Doesn't matter their intentions. They sold a ~560km missile to a non-MTCR country that's all that matters.

    And where did you get the info of Babur having Pakistani engine? From your uncle?

    Thing is there is NO INFORMATION either way. No one said Babur has a pakistani engine. No one officially revealed it had a Chinese engine, either.

    When lack of info is the case, the best one can do is to draw inferences based on plausible information. The info suggests Pak is not capable of developing a turbofan engine in-house. The info also suggests that China did supply missile technology to Pakistan previously (for decades, in fact). So it's an educated guess to say Babur likely has a Chinese engine.

    Anyway what's relevant is that China has been violating MTCR wrt Pakistan FOR DECADES.

    So your statement of "if France sells 500km SCALP to India then China will be free to export +300km missiles/tech to Pakistan" is basically point-less because China has already been doing that regardless of whether France sells us +300km SCALP or not.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 20, 2017
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  7. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    France didn't sell Scalp to EAU they sold Black Shaheen. The difference between SCALP and Black Shaheen is the range.
     
  8. Blue Marlin

    Blue Marlin 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    well...sort of the aip wont be the same as each type of sub has different power requirements the 209 wont be a thirsty as the 214 for example.
    the 212 shares it features with the 214 just because it shares it features to another sub does not mean it will look like it. the type 212 came about 2002 and the 214 came around 5 years later in 2007. it just makes sense. im not going over this again.



    yes i said, that what you fail to understand again is post mtcr the brahmos's ranges was 300km after joining the mtcr the range went 300+ only russia would do that!!
    i cant dumb it down any further, sorry.


    i just went through this...... go to sleep and respond when your sain.


    you started it, i reported and its ignored, so lets continue.


    your dad wrote a article about it, go read it.


    are you high you did, you said the babur has a chinese engine, how do you know ?does your mum work there as raw or something?


    the point im making is there is no information out there and would be naive to consider the easy "it chinese painted in a pakistani flag" and job done and sit on your high horse and preach it.
    the only ting avaliable is images and look at them does the babur's control surfaces represent anything else out there? what about the position of the wing and the intake's etc........
    besides wheres the nirbhay? your not one to speak.


    in thats case you must have tiny feet.
    your the result of giving an indian kid a laptop, if thats the case god help help india because no one else is gonna.

    personally i think i would go for the mdcn as it has a higher subsonic speeds and a new design. (for the type 26)

    if you wish reply to my post, do so in a civilised manner.
     
  9. Gessler

    Gessler Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    cough....France...cough...UAE

    Oh that's funny...considering I was the one dumbing down things for you not 2 days ago.

    Calm down....and learn to spell.

    You can't report me for calling a spade a spade.

    Oh yeah? Give me a link, I'll read it for sure.

    I said no one officially revealed it has a Chinese engine (or otherwise).

    I already said that me saying it has a Chinese engine is a guesstimate based on what informed pakistani members said, combined with information regarding previous Chinese supply of rocket motors and propulsion techs to Pakistani missile program.

    If she does, I sure wouldn't know about it. You know how secret agents operate.

    What does Nirbhay have to do with any of this?

    And speaking of Nirbhay you said previously it has an underpowered 36MT. May I ask how you know that? Your mum ISI or something? And you accuse me of believing what strangers on the internet say?

    Not to mention the fact that when we tested Nirbhay the first couple times India was NOT a member of MTCR - and you agreed yourself that Russia wasn't ready to supply +300km missile tech to India when we weren't a member.

    36MT is Russian....so you're telling me Russians wouldn't violate MTCR in case of BrahMos but they WOULD violate MTCR in case of Nirbhay??

    Make up your mind, mate :lol: You're not making any sense whatsoever!

    Judging by the way you type (bad spellings, no grammar or composition...and even no auto-correct to say you're using a mobile) I'd have to say you're the one who's either:

    a) Just barely literate
    b) Using some crappy device to post
    c) Both

    You need to fix yourself...and make it fast.

    What makes you think I care what you would go for on Type 26?

    Go to some Brit Defense forum and rant there about your choice of weapons for T26....or maybe you'd prefer a Pak defense site, so that you can impress your pakistani friends. Either way I don't care.
     
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  10. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Repeat the lie thousand times, and the person listening will start believing in that, the same way the PDFopedian person is finding it difficult to swallow the doze of the truth.

    @Gessler BTW Babur was developed from the Korsun Cruise missile, alledged being smuggled from Ukraine, which China modified it for both Pakistan and Iran.

    The most difficult part of developing a Cruise missile is the Cost of Development and Testing, which is in Billions, which Pakistan don't have.
     
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  11. Zer0reZ

    Zer0reZ 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Project-75I: competition down to four as RFI deadline expires

    The navy has received responses from French Naval Group (formerly DCNS), Germany’s ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS), Sweden’s Saab Kockums and Russia’s Rubin.

    Two of the recipients of the RFI, Mitsubishi/Kawasaki of Japan and Navantia of Spain have failed to submit the requested information for their Soryu and S-80 submarines to the Indian Navy.

    The absence of a Japanese response is perhaps not entirely surprising, considering their institutional reluctance to commit to a process in a system with which they are unfamiliar, their wait for the culmination of a long-pending Indian order for ShinMaywa US-2i amphibious aircraft and their recent experience competing for an Australian order for submarines.

    Navantia’s lack of participation is more unexpected, considering the S-80 is modeled on the French Scorpene, which are coming into service in the Indian Navy. The Spanish company has also been involved in a contest to supply LHD vessels to the Indian Navy.

    The Naval Group is offering the Scorpene; TKMS is offering the Type 214; Saab Kockums is offering the A26 and Rubin is offering the Amur submarine. The order is estimated to be worth around USD 10 billion.

     

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