Indians Also Beheaded Pakistani Soldiers

Discussion in 'Strategic & Geopolitical Issues' started by Jungibaaz, Jan 17, 2013.

  1. Jungibaaz
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    Jungibaaz ELITE MEMBER

    On the of latest edition, (telecast a few hours ago, on the evening of the 15th of January, 2013) of ‘The Buck Stops Here’, (a flagship news show on NDTV anchored by Barkha Dutt) – ‘India-Pakistan:Another Tipping Point‘, Admiral (Retd.) Ramdas, former chief of the Indian Navy said he knew that Indian forces have beheaded Pakistani soldiers in the past. Gen. (Retd.) V.P. Malik, former chief of the Indian Army contradicted him, and said this had never happened. Barkha Dutt was silent on this matter.


    Below is a summary of some highlights of the discussion.


    Around 21:15 minutes into the programme, Admiral Ramdas says, “Beheading of Troops has been going on from both sides has been for some time, I mean there is evidence of this…

    Barkha Dutt, eager to change the subject, nervously interjects and says ‘I want you to comment, Sir, on Sporting and Cultural ties, because that is what has been hit today…’. Why is she so anxious to change the subject? Is it because Admiral Ramdas is clearly speaking about something she personally does not want spoken about?

    Then, a little later, Ms. Dutt asks Gen. Malik to speak, she also asks him to talk whether ‘Sporting and Cultural Ties should become the fall-guy’.

    Gen. V.P. Malik says (around 24:40 minutes into the program), “…And I don’t agree with Admiral (Ram) Das that both sides have been doing this, I would like to see anybody give me one instance where this kind of inhuman act has been done by the Indian army… I know that with great respect, we not only buried their bodies with great respect…we returned any body that they asked for.”

    Barkha Dutt knows what Admiral Ramdas was talking about. As has been pointed out before on Kafila, she has written about it (the decapitation of Pakistani soldiers by the Indian army during the Kargil conflict in the summer of 1999) herself in Himal magazine (June, 2001).

    I had to look three times to make sure I was seeing right. Balanced on one knee, in a tiny alley behind the army’s administrative offices, I was peering through a hole in a corrugated tin sheet. At first glance, all I could see were some leaves. I looked harder and amidst all the green, there was a hint of black—it looked like a moustache. “Look again,” said the army colonel, in a tone that betrayed suppressed excitement. This time, I finally saw.

    It was a head, the disembodied face of a slain soldier nailed onto a tree. “The boys got it as a gift for the brigade,” said the colonel, softly, but proudly. [Archived at The Hoot]


    So that is an instance where ‘this kind of inhuman act’ did happen. So why did she not say so to Gen. Malik. She is not ‘anybody’, she was there, and this is an issue that is being discussed on a show that she is anchoring. How long can it be before she gets called out for the gross irresponsibility of her reticence on this very crucial matter. Was she lying in 2001, or, is she concealing the truth now?

    But the buck, doesn’t stop here.


    Then, a BJP Politician and spokesman for his party, Ravi Shankar Prasad is asked by Barkha Dutt about the NDA’s record on India-Pakistan relations. She mentions Vajpayee as the architect of the India Pakistan Peace Process , Kargil, Parliament Attack, Hijacking of IC 814, Historic Ceasefire of 2003 etc.

    Ravi Shankar Prasad begins, not by immediately addressing Barkha Dutt’s question, but by contradicting Admiral Ramdas. Around 26:39 minutes into the program, Ravi Shankar Prasad says – “…Mr. Ramdas has been a distinguished Naval chief, but for him to make a comment that even Indian forces have been beheading, I am happy Gen. Malik contradicted him very conclusively, Admiral Ramdas you need to understand that Pakistani people will lap up your comment, and seek to condemn Indian army in no uncertain terms, I am seeing that happening, for heavens sake don’t make these sweeping comments.”

    “Don’t call on Heaven, Mr. Prasad” (Admiral Ramdas says, attempting to interject) but Barkha Dutt doesn’t let him speak. Once again, she does not contradict, question or challenge Ravi Shankar Prasad. Her evasion in this matter, at this point, when it has popped up on her program for the third time now, is a truly sweeping statement.

    Then, Barkha Dutt moves on to Congress spokesman, Avishek Manu Singhvi, and other matters, and other panelists, Ashutosh Varshney and Leela Ponnappa, the question that Admiral Ramdas raised is forgotten, but it lingers, silent, and sullen, like the ghost of a beheaded soldier in the studio.

    At the end of the programme, Shahvar Ali Khan, a musician from Lahore, Pakistan says “All the peace loving people of Pakistan are with the grief of the people of India.” He hopes that the present situation will not affect cultural and social ties.

    Ravi Shankar Prasad says that he loves Pakistani Ghazal songs, but says artists, sportsmen and people who want peace are “fringe players”.

    Then, Barkha Dutt asks Admiral Ramdas for a comment. He says, “If for so many years things have gone wrong, the fault lies not with sportsmen and artists, why punish them for what why have not done?”

    Who makes the constituency of peace a fringe, and who makes the dogs of war, the people Shahvar Ali Khan calls the ‘hate-mongers’, on either side of the LOC, occupy the centre-stage, again and again?

    If an important television journalist like Barkha Dutt talks about the fact that both armies have committed acts of savagery, which, I repeat, she says she knows, because she has said that she has seen this with her own eyes, it will weaken the dogs of war. This admission, coming from a public figure like her, will make it more difficult for the war-party on either side of the LOC to point their fingers only at people across the border.

    Nothing can strengthen the constituency of peace more at this crucial juncture, than a little honest and public introspection, on both sides. Let us hope that will occur. Barkha Dutt can set the ball rolling, if she chooses to. The buck, starts with her.


    Dear Barkha Dutt: The Buck Stops Where? « Kafila

    courtesy windy at PDF.
  2. Jungibaaz
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    Jungibaaz ELITE MEMBER

    Before you all come replying.
    Know that I expect now what I've seen in the last few threads!

    Denial!
    By all means attack the source, ask for evidence and brush it all off.
    I expect nothing less of some of you folks.

    This at least puts you folks at eye level.
  3. TSUNAMI
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    TSUNAMI SENIOR MEMBER

    If IA have to do this they have done it in 1971 with 90000 PA soldiers....
  4. Jungibaaz
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    Jungibaaz ELITE MEMBER

    hahaha!

    I guess that pisses on everyone's parade.
    The old looking down on the entire nation of Pakistan over an event that may or may not have occurred.
    Your media, leaders and people here put themselves, their army and nation on some sort of high platform.

    Now look at the comments you're coming out with.
    Humanity=out the bloody window.
  5. TSUNAMI
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    TSUNAMI SENIOR MEMBER

    As you you were doing some thing else....
    You were even attacking every Indian source and still if somebody is talking about it you dont have any strong proof to show that it ever happened.
  6. Jungibaaz
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    Jungibaaz ELITE MEMBER

    I was unsure in the beginning, denial occurred after PA and IA statements, details of the event or lack thereof and upon inspection.
    But your denial is different, just like there was in another thread. Another member (wont name em') gave the article one look and called it fake. And when I asked for some elaboration as to why he's posted this 'knee-jerk' reaction, he proceeded to change the topic.

    My denial was uncertain and only upon inspection.
    You folks deny it instinctively and against your better judgement.

    Big difference.

    Like I said Indian media is quick to release stories without hearing all of it.
    Which is highly unprofessional of them, but here is not where I commend them, here is where they slipped up on their propaganda campaign.

    Read the damn article.
  7. kewlol
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    kewlol FULL MEMBER

    I do agree with you jungi, but as everyone from Pakistan says that this was not the work of park army but the work of terrorist who do such cowardly things. So what I say is, if that is the truth then why can't anyone in Pakistan put forward a scheme to make a joint task force with the elite unit on each side to take out hafeez saeed? He is a danger to both the nation, so why can't you people agree for a joint task force that can take out terror elements and other potential threats on both side of the loc.

    Why won't Pakistan accept to this. I am strong believer in Indo pak ties, but at the same time we can't keep this stand off going for long.
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2013
    1 person likes this.
  8. Jungibaaz
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    Jungibaaz ELITE MEMBER

    Well. I can't say I'm sure it wasn't PA, but I swing towards that view.
    With that in mind, if it was a PA regular or a militant who did this (if it happened) then they should be held accountable and made an example of.

    Beheading is a barbaric act and a big accusation, as such if there is someone guilty, then he should be punished severely.

    Well with LeT, GoP and PA/ISI under immense international pressure and after LeT involvement in attacks in Pakistan, several LeT were arrested and dealt with.

    But Hafiz Saeed is different. LeT's involvement in 26/11 was crystal clear as was their hand in attacks in Pakistan.
    Hence, we dealt with them. However, Pakistani officials claim (and I can't verify this nor can I deny it) that there isn't concrete evidence against Hafiz Saeed, which is partly true, he seems like a media boogeyman and was only really the centre of attention after his words against the US, that's why US put em on their hit list. However,he could be guilty, after all, he says he supports the Kashmir 'cause' (or in other words militancy).

    But it's one of two things: either he isn't proven guilty with the lack of evidence, or the establishment is unwilling to remove him and I believe the latter a bit more since it's widely known that PA supports militancy in Kashmir.

    I wish we could. and I agree with you, if he is guilty (likely he is) then we should put him in the same boat as TTP.
    He is a danger to us too.

    But politics and self interests seem to rule, the Pakistani establishment is unwilling to get rid of him and may even support him along with militancy in J&K. But at the same time, PA and GoP will be unwilling to budge unless India backs off of it's support for BLA and other high profile attacks in Pakistan.

    It should be done, but one can't expect any country to back off without assurance of the other.
    What complicates things further is that both sides deny the existence of such activities.

    Meaning anyone who wants to deal with this issue will be chasing shadows and be met with denial.
    I hope for a better future though. After all, we can't go on like this forever.

    Sure, we've been close to war twice now in only a few years, first 26/11 and now this.
    But PA does support militancy in India, while India does so in Balochistan and has involvement in attacks on PAF/PN bases.

    Like I said, lets be fair.
    In this post, I've tried to be as neutral as I can, but you got to understand that Pak can't be expected to budge unless both countries have an agreement.

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