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India’s First BVR Missile Astra on Verge of Commercial Production

Discussion in 'Indian Military Doctrine' started by SilentSpectator, Nov 26, 2016.

  1. mugundhan

    mugundhan 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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  2. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog IDF NewBie

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    When comparing R77 we should remember how terrible it is. Even russians never used the original version which we use.

    http://archive.indianexpress.com/ne...ave-homing-ageing-problems-cag-report/490055/

    http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...ry-aircraft-not-armed-the-best-aircraft-17487
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2017
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  3. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Hehe, I know my friend Agent and that he will be critical about it again, that's why I posted it beforehand. :smile:

    I have a DRDO report somewhere that confirms it too, but it's kind of odd to doubt MoD official report don't you think?
    Also I didn't responded to MICA, because it has no relation here. Astra is specifically developed to replace Russian missiles and make us less dependent on them. That's why the benchmark is R77 and R27 in the varients IAF used. So ideally Astra should offer the same or better range and afaik 80Km was the initial target as well, but correct me if I'm wrong.

    Wrt MICA though, by the same standard would mean that MICA procured for upgraded Mirage 2000 must offer the same or better range / capabilities than the Matra and Magic missiles it replaces. The longest range officially recorded hit for MICA is 72Km as far as I remember and I know that French formers say it has even more range, but as said, all that counts is, better than Matra/Magic.

    Derby is not comparable to Meteor, since it doesn't have a ramjet propulsion. It is comparable to latest gen R77 or Aim120D. And the point that you left out was, that LCA was suppose to have R77 and Astra later. R77 was not possible anymore and if Astra would be good enough now, IAF would have integrated it to LCA MK1 and the EL 2032. However, they didn't and went with I-Derby instead.

    I also hope that Astra will replace all Russian and I-Derby missiles soon, but we can't accept less capability only because it's indigenous and the fact that they left distance calculations out in this test, is quite telling too.

    P.S. watching soccer, so delayed replies only. :mrgreen:
     
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  4. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog IDF NewBie

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    No its not odd when the altitude is not specified. Here again you skipped the actual argument of altitude and resorted to speculations. MICA is relevant when it have even less range and you question range of Astra.

    By the same standard, Astra is so much better than the terrible RVV-AE offering better performance and usability.

    Meteor is comparable all high end/new gen BVR missile available in the market. Ramjet is not a silver bullet. You think US or Israelis are incapable to develop one ?

    IAF asked for a next gen BVR in addition to Astra/R77 integration. Just like they choose Meteor in addition to MICA for Rafale.

    Also, You should be comparing I-Derby with Astra Mk2 not current.
     
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  5. sunstersun

    sunstersun Lieutenant IDF NewBie

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    60km is pretty terrible, but I guess you have to start small and build up.
     
  6. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Lol speculations based on official government figures. Right

    Again, it is not, because MICA is not considered for R77 replacement. And I don't question the range, I stick with the official figures and to what missiles they need to be compared to.
    Usually you are accusing me for making relations to European weapons and now you bring them up for no reason at all. :disagree:

    Usability maybe, that needs to be seen during operational service though, right? Performance certainly not, if it doesn't offer the same of the older Russian versions.

    I never said they can't develop similar, but that the other missiles are not comparable to it. The ramjet propulsion is the key differentiator, because it adds speed to reduce the no escape zone, the range increase is just a secondary advantage, but the speed for the full flight path is what sets it apart.
     
  7. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog IDF NewBie

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    Again, where is the altitude figures ? This is the third time!

    I can show you many 'official' figures even DRDO scientists on camera quoting the range as 80km. I'm waiting for your explanation which you keep loling.

    [​IMG]

    I used MICA to show your bias. Which is in full display. And you did question the range.


    Here we go again. Indian's can't make anything reliable even compared to 90's russian tech. Grow up and back up your arguments. Compare performance per altitude and mode of operation with RVV-AE. We don't need your baseless assumptions again.
     
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  8. Zer0reZ

    Zer0reZ 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    India Conducts First Live Fire Exercise of Homegrown BVR Air to Air Missile

    [​IMG]

    The 3.8 meter long Astra Mark-1 is a single-stage, solid-propellant missile that can hit a target at a range of 75 kilometers with a speed of more than four times the speed of sound at Mach 4.5. Its advanced version is expected to match the caliber of the French Meteor BVRAAM.

    NEW DELHI (Sputnik) — India has successfully conducted the first live fire trial of its home-grown beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM) — Astra in the Bay of Bengal. Sources told Sputnik that this is the first in the series of at least eight trials before it is approved to be inducted into service by the end of 2017.

    The missile was fired from a Su-30MKI fighter jet targeting a pilotless target aircraft (PTA), the Banshee. This was carried out to revalidate the newly developed indigenous missile seeker and its accuracy capability. The seeker helps in firing the missile from beyond visual range, tracking and then locking onto the target.

    "The exercise was conducted in a war-like scenario and the missile was fired on an actual target," said a defense official.


    Sources told Sputnik that the homegrown BVRAAM would be fitted on to the locally developed fighter jet Tejas. Meanwhile, DRDO has started work on the longer range version of the missile that is to be named Astra Mk-2 that can hit targets up to 100 kilometers. The advanced version is expected to match the caliber of the French Meteor BVRAAM.

    The Indian Air Force has already placed an initial order for 50 Astra MK-1 which will be followed by a bulk order for all its fighter aircraft. Last month India's state-owned Bharat Dynamics Limited (BDL) inaugurated a special production facility near the southern city of Hyderabad to manufacture the initial batch of Astra Mk1.
     
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  9. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    =>

    http://m.timesofindia.com/india/10-...may-be-ready-in-2016/articleshow/49682035.cms

    So besides the MoD, the highest ranking DRDO official confirms that range as well.
    If you belive them or not is up to you, I take official figures as reliable. Development aim was certainly 80Km, as I said before too, but that apparently wasn't achieved. So going into pointless discussions on altitude, when you have official figures doesn't change anything.

    Which itself makes no sense and only shows your emotional reaction. When YOU brought it up, how can it show my bias??? I even told you that it had no relation to Astra and YOU keep bringing it up, so who is using it to make a wrong point? And again, I stated an official fact!

    Lol again, don't react just on emotions and read properly!
    I said that usability (which includes reliability) can only be judged during operational service, just as we didn't knew when we bought the Russian missiles, that they will have reliability issues during their operational life. The performance of the current version however, is not on par of the missiles it replaces and I already have proven that, you just don't like it that's all.
    I never said that we can't make Astra reliable, nor did I made any wrong relation to another missile. So calm down and don't make falso accusations.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2017
  10. kaku

    kaku BANNED BANNED

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    [​IMG]
    But RVV-AE range is 50 km.
    I dont know what you talking about.

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_44d3OT-xI3U/SOqJRVHICxI/AAAAAAAAANc/FMQ3kv_RzrE/s1600-h/R-77-1.jpg
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  11. kaku

    kaku BANNED BANNED

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    [​IMG]

    I dont know what is the problem? @Agent_47
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2017
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  12. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    You might want to check your own source again. Up to 80Km for other air targets might give you a hint.
     
  13. kaku

    kaku BANNED BANNED

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    But fighters are 50 km.

    Where DRDO say 60 km they claim is not for fighters? But very large targets like tankers.

    I not seen DRDO even ever tested Astra-1 against very large targets. They always tested against Banshee.
     
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  14. kaku

    kaku BANNED BANNED

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    [​IMG]

    This is what you posted

    Will you enlighten us, which "other targets" or "large targets" exist which are highly maneuvering and supersonic?
     
  15. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Nice try, you proved yourself to be wrong and now asking me why your source makes that distingtion, while Indian doesn't?
    Also the size of the target has no relation to the missile range. Fighter targets, are usually engaged at lower range, within the no escape zone of the missile, because the shorter the distance, the less time for the target to evade or use countermeasures. Less capable targets on the other side, can be engaged at longer distances.
     

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