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India’s Muslims

Discussion in 'Internal Affairs' started by VCheng, Nov 1, 2016.

  1. Inactive

    Inactive Guest


    India is already on that route. We might as well complete the task :biggthumpup:
     
  2. Inactive

    Inactive Guest


    Nope. I merely pointed out the antithesis.....I do not have an opinion posted yet. Just observations.:wink:
     
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  3. Inactive

    Inactive Guest


    Ha! And then you were being unjust to deny us the pleasure of this!
     
    seiko and Bang Galore like this.
  4. Bang Galore

    Bang Galore Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Couldn't resist. Even after a year of hibernation.

    Pure happenchance, haven't been here for quite some time.Was randomly surfing when I saw some uncommon names here. Was hoping to see some vintage Joe Shearer & wasn't disappointed, especially in the J&K accession thread. Have missed you in these kind of threads. It's been a very long wait.

    I'm good, just needed a break from the meaningless jousting.

    Now that I'm here, I must tell you this & it is the main reason I posted.....(I have probably said something similar before...elsewhere)...A lot of us can argue things, occasionally even throw in a sharp one, but you have a rare talent, the ability to educate while arguing your point. You teach history even without a lot of us realising it. You possess the very rare gift of being a good teacher and you owe it to yourself, if not to the likes of us, to educate if only so that some of us can be be better informed. I have always appreciated your participation in matters of history because I enjoyed the information that you would produce during the course of a thread. It's a pleasure to see glimpses of that here, something that I have missed for quite some time. Hoping to see more of that.

    Cheers :cheers:
     
  5. VCheng

    VCheng RIDER REGISTERED

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    To get back on topic, I have a question: Does the larger average family size among Muslims in India play a role in their relative deprivation by reducing the available resources per child?
     
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  6. Bang Galore

    Bang Galore Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Slumber it is....a regular forum Kumbhakarna...:mrgreen:
     
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  7. seiko

    seiko VETERAN ELITE MEMBER

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    Kumbakarna slept only for 6 months in a year. You took more time than that. I hope you will be active from now on.
     
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  8. Joe Shearer

    Joe Shearer VETERAN MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    I wish you wouldn't.

    It's embarrassing.

    I don't know what to say. I feel utterly humble and not worth this praise.

    Thank you very much.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 2, 2016
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  9. seiko

    seiko VETERAN ELITE MEMBER

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    Yes, it does. Another reason is refusal to adapt to new things. From my experience earlier generations of Muslims were much better than the current one atleast in Kerala. One of the prime example was one of the MLA M.K Munir. His father was also a MLA in Kerala Assembly who worked hard for the education of Muslim woman and empowerment. Now this guy was minister, he was trying for more Islamisation like reducing the marriage age of Muslim girls to 16 etc. Most horrific thing is that the active campaign against vaccinations for kids. It is said that some of the diseases we eradicated are coming back in Muslim dominated areas in Kerala due to their refusal to vaccinate their children.
     
  10. Inactive

    Inactive Guest


    Yikes ........:yes2:
     
  11. Joe Shearer

    Joe Shearer VETERAN MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    I've wanted to say something about this for a long time.

    It's a myth - not what you wrote above, but an associated meme, that Muslims reproduce faster (naturally; they have four wives, don't they?)

    First, the reproductive rate is measured in terms of an individual woman's reproduction; only the bone-headed male chauvinist thinks that his get matters. The number of children a woman has is the same whether she is a single wife or one of four. Or more. Those who are opposed to Muslim law permitting multiple marriages - polygamy - are effing a-holes. They should be objecting due to the original objection placed - that any marital arrangement has to be equitable to both sides.

    Second, poorer people reproduce more. This is because children - the surviving children - are the social security of the poor. Whether caste Hindu, Dalit Hindu, tribal, Muslim, Sikh, Buddhist or Jain - let's leave out the Parsis, can't imagine a poor Parsi - the poorer they are, the more children they have.

    Third, there are more Muslims, proportionately, in north India than in south India. And that has a direct bearing.

    Fourth, north India, as a bloc, is poorer than south India.

    Fifth, that means that more of the Muslim population lives in the north, proportionately speaking. More of the Hindu population, proportionately speaking, lives in the south. Assume that the average percentage of Muslims is 18% overall. Assume that it is higher than 18% in the north; assume that it is lower than 18% in the south. See what the relative proportions do to the average poverty of the community.

    Sixth, if proportionately the Muslim community is poorer than the Hindu, what's so surprising about their higher reproduction rate? That's what we should expect.

    Seventh, we have already seen in the latest census figures that Muslim reproductivity has reduced sharply, as their earnings have gone up. They now reproduce far more slowly than they were doing ten years ago.

    Eighth, with growing prosperity, Muslims will regress to the reproduction rate of the general population; it will be less and less possible to see a differential.

    I feel helpless when I read some arguments against Muslims as a community, and against their personal law, which should be reformed, but not for the cockamamie reasons put forward.

    This is why those who spoke to me on PM should understand that I oppose the right wing.

    I have to factor this increasing rot from the top into my social model.

    Hmm. You have a point. But I feel like a reluctant martyr. I'd rather not have that stuff burning near my feet. It's uncomfortable.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 2, 2016
  12. Bang Galore

    Bang Galore Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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  13. VCheng

    VCheng RIDER REGISTERED

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    I would love to read your response to what Joe has said above:


     
  14. Inactive

    Inactive Guest


    Yes. It is appalling actually. One needs visit the old towns of Hyderabad, Meerut, Moradabad and behind the Dar-ul-Uloom Seminary in Islamabad! The sheer family sizes with lower socio-economic conditions do have a cascading effect.

    Since it was specific to Muslim community, I have answered only for that aspect. The same also holds for any community if the socio-economic status is controlled for both, generally again a social problem being compounded by regressive 'religious' mindset.

    However, there is a regressive thought of not educating a girl child, which I noticed in my own observations, more prevalent in a Muslim family, than say any other again for status controlled. More profound where the father has completed high school education and maybe in a government job and still have a tendency to marry off the girl by 16-17 yrs of age and claiming it is in our 'kaum'. I have had one such shocking experience just recently from a well settled man in government employment whose sons were Masters and daughter was being married off at 17, a girl who wanted to be a Doctor and was indeed a bright child.
     
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  15. VCheng

    VCheng RIDER REGISTERED

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    Please respond to Joe's contention above that it is poverty, and not religion, that primarily causes this overbreeding.
     

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