India's Solar Mission - 100GW by 2022

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  1. Agent_47
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    Images have been released showing the sheer size of the new solar power plant in southern India.

    The facility in Kamuthi, Tamil Nadu, has a capacity of 648 MW and covers an area of 10sq km.

    This makes it the largest solar power plant at a single location, taking the title from the Topaz Solar Farm in California, which has a capacity of 550 MW.

    The solar plant, built in an impressive eight months, is cleaned every day by a robotic system, charged by its own solar panels.

    At full capacity, it is estimated to produce enough electricity to power about 150,000 homes.

    The project is comprised of 2.5 million individual solar modules, and cost $679m to build.


    The new plant has helped nudge India's total installed solar capacity across the 10 GW mark, according to a statement by research firm Bridge to India, joining only a handful of countries that can make this claim.

    As solar power increases, India is expected to become the world's third-biggest solar market from next year onwards, after China and the US.

    Despite the fast-growing solar power industry, India will still need to increase its take-up of solar panels if it is to achieve the ambitious targets set by the government.

    By 2022, India aims to power 60 million homes by the sun. It is part of the government's goal to produce 40 percent of its power from non-fossil fuels by 2030.

    This aim has been praised by environmental groups and is hoped will also help reduce the country's problem with air quality. At the beginning of this month, the pollution level in the capital New Delhi reached its worst levels in 17 years.

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/...argest-solar-power-plant-161129101022044.html

    India surging ahead in the field of Green Energy - 100 GW Solar Scale-Up plan

    The Union Cabinet chaired by the Prime Minister, Shri Narendra Modi, today gave its approval for stepping up of India’s solar power capacity target under the Jawaharlal Nehru National Solar Mission (JNNSM) by five times, reaching 1,00,000 MW by 2022. The target will principally comprise of 40 GW Rooftop and 60 GW through Large and Medium Scale Grid Connected Solar Power Projects. With this ambitious target, India will become one of the largest Green Energy producers in the world, surpassing several developed countries.

    The total investment in setting up 100 GW will be around Rs. 6,00,000 cr. In the first phase, the Government of India is providing Rs. 15,050 crore as capital subsidy to promote solar capacity addition in the country. This capital subsidy will be provided for Rooftop Solar projects in various cities and towns, for Viability Gap Funding (VGF) based projects to be developed through the Solar Energy Corporation of India (SECI) and for decentralized generation through small solar projects. The Ministry of New and Renewable Energy (MNRE) intends to achieve the target of 1,00,000 MW with targets under the three schemes of 19,200 MW.

    Apart from this, solar power projects with investment of about Rs. 90,000 crore would be developed using Bundling mechanism with thermal power. Further investment will come from large Public Sector Undertakings and Independent Power Producers (IPPs). State Governments have also come out with State specific solar policies to promote solar capacity addition.

    The Government of India may also approach bilateral and international donors as also the Green Climate Fund for achieving this target. Solar power can contribute to the long term energy security of India, and reduce dependence on fossil fuels that put a strain on foreign reserves and the ecology as well. The solar manufacturing sector will get a boost with this long term trajectory of solar capacity addition. This will help in creation of technology hubs for manufacturing. The increased manufacturing capacity and installation are expected to pave way for direct and indirect employment opportunities in both the skilled and unskilled sector.

    The new solar target of 100 GW is expected to abate over 170 million tonnes of CO2 over its life cycle. This Solar Scale-up Plan has a target of 40 GW through Decentralized Solar Power Generation in the form of Grid Connected Rooftop Projects. While Decentralized Generation will stabilise the grid, it will minimise investment on power evacuation.

    To facilitate such a massive target, the Prime Minister’s Office has been pushing various Ministries to initiate supporting interventions, like:-

    a) incorporating changes in land use regulations and tenancy laws to facilitate aggregation and leasing of land by farmers/ developers for solar projects;

    b) identification of large chunks of land for solar projects;

    c) identification of large government complexes/ buildings for rooftop projects;

    d) clear survey of wastelands and identification of transmission/ road infrastructure using satellite technology for locating solar parks;

    e) development of power transmission network/ Green Energy Corridor;

    f) setting up of exclusive parks for domestic manufacturing of solar PV modules;

    g) provision of roof top solar and 10 percent renewable energy as mandatory reform under the new scheme of Ministry of Urban Development;

    h) amendments in building bye-laws for mandatory provision of roof top solar for new construction or higher FAR;

    i) considering infrastructure status for solar projects; raising tax free solar bonds; providing long tenor loans; making roof top solar a part of housing loan by banks/ NHB and extending IIFCL credit facility to such projects by the Department of Financial Services;

    j) suitable amendments to the Electricity Act for strong enforcement of Renewable Purchase Obligation (RPO) and for providing Renewable Generation Obligation (RGO);

    k) incorporating measures in Integrated Power Development Scheme (IPDS) for encouraging distribution companies and making net-metering compulsory.

    Background:

    JNNSM was launched in 2009 with a target for Grid Connected Solar Projects of 20,000 MW by 2022. In the last two to three years, the sector has witnessed rapid development with installed solar capacity increasing rapidly from 18 MW to about 3800 MW during 2010 - 15. The price of solar energy has come down significantly from Rs.17.90 per unit in 2010 to under Rs.7 per unit, thereby reducing the need of VGF / GBI per MW of solar power. With technology advancement and market competition, this Green Power is expected to reach grid parity by 2017-18. These developments would enable India to achieve its present target of 20,000 MW. But considering its international commitment towards Green and climate friendly growth trajectory, the Government of India has taken this path-breaking decision.


    http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease.aspx?relid=122566
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2016
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  2. Dagger
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    Dagger FULL MEMBER

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    Adani power..
    What a waste. 679m$ for getting brownie points for climate protection. Cound have easily got it done for less than half the cost with a coal power plant.

    The modules are sourced from china. They had over produced and created a supply glut in solar modules. Disappointing that we could not manufacture them here, with our labour getting paid.The US even applied anti dumping duties for solar modules from china a few years ago. We should have done the same.

    http://www.livemint.com/Industry/CG...sound-alarm-over-rising-imports-from-Chi.html



    And it says robotic cleaning. Another thing which has no place in India. People ready to work for 8000 rs per month. Could have given them jobs instead of investing in the extravagant capital cost of a robotic system. Would have created hell a lotta jobs.

    http://taiyangnews.info/markets/indias-largest-solar-power-plant/

    Demoralising when our government cannot incentivise local jobs and local manufacturing. But the communist China has done this for her ppl and far more.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2016
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  3. Agent_47
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    Don't be that guy. Give source for random claims.

    Because there is no cheap solar module production in india. We imported a billion mobile phones from china and why didn't you cry then? Why now?

    Adani group is building 10000MW solar park in Rajasthan. And they have started photovoltaic cell production in house. Its 10% costlier as of now and they are still making to to power their phase 1 part of the park. Why are they doing that ? because so that in time and experties they can make world standard solar cells at economic rate.

    Solar cell cleaning uses too much water , Its not people cost. Innovations are always a good thing.

    Manufacturing era of job creation is gone. Blame the last government who was not wise enough to create a 'make in india' like movement a decade ago.
     
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  4. A_poster
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    A_poster 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    All your points are valid ,except one about comparative cost of coal. India is probably most energy starved major country, and this push for Solar energy is a necessity for our energy security also ,apart from environmental benefits. You are right about imposing anti-dumping duties on China and it is a necessity. PV cell industry ,world over, is in its infancy and we need to promote this industry from Chinese subsidies.
     
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  5. Butter Chicken
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    some people will say- Modi is promoting solar,adani is making solar plant,hence prove Modi is Adani agent
     
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  6. Agent_47
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    Topaz, California - 580 MW - cost $2.5 billion - built in 2 years

    Tamil Nadu, India - 648 MW - cost $677 mln - built in 8 months
     
  7. MilSpec
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    I am surprised with the criticism above. If anything we should be pioneers in clean energy, challenges of climate change are absolutely real and if we do not do anything about it, all of our dreams of developing the nation will be ruined. We absolutely need to be champions of solar power moving away from coal.
     
  8. Dagger
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    @A_poster too for comparative cost in India for coal and solar

    quotes from recent articles. This is cost of the Kamuthi solar plant agreed on.:
    "The agreement said that the Tamil Nadu Generation and Distribution Corporation (Tangedco, the State’s power utility) would purchase all the power produced by the 648 MW solar park (to be set up in Ramanathapuram district) at Rs 7.01 per unit for the next 25 years."
    http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...kyhigh-rates-in-tamil-nadu/article7464751.ece

    and this is India's average coal per unit cost -
    "In the last financial year, the average rate of electricity sold by NTPC’s coal-fuelled projects was Rs.3.25 per unit, while the tariff of power from its other projects ranged between Rs.2 and Rs.4.50 a unit"
    http://www.livemint.com/Industry/x7...ew-normal-for-Indian-solar-power-tariffs.html
    So.. 3.25 rs per unit say inflation takes to 3.5.. Even then half the solar cost.

    Calm down Mr.Internet Hitman . To give a crude example , try telling a molested lady to get molested again because she has already suffered once.
    you claim 10%(??) more. My simple expectation from our govt is to have the competency to apply anti-dumping duties to that extent or till whatever works. Or that same fledgling industry you are talking about will never grow. The US has already done that. We should too. They are dumping at a loss here for the very purpose of breaking domestic industry as I showed in my last post.

    Robotics have no place in India. I am pretty passionate about this. Especially for unskilled labour. Even if the robot is bought from an Indian company. Let me explain. Any robot purchased will be from a MNC where most of the money goes to a rich guy. Using a labour for Rs 6390 rs per month (I saw a video where govt health workers are getting paid Rs 500 per month for 5 days a week work).This gives these poor a way to earn a living honourably. The Govt has to otherwise anyway take care of them. The Nrega average per day is Rs 213 (*30 = Rs6390). I have a strong proposal that the govt must subsidise the wages paid by any one if they hire these MNREGA candidates by half. Because the govt guarantees this money either way and gives it. This also gives an incentive for people to hire people than to go for robots. They can recover the money for subsidies from elsewhere. The business wins, getting a subsidy .. the poor person wins, by more jobs created. No robot cleaning can possibly compete cost effectively for unskilled labour in India.

    http://nrega.nic.in/netnrega/homestciti.aspx?state_code=26

    The manufacturing era for job creation is RIGHT NOW! Thats Make in India, Skill India, PMKVY. etc. We are right now where china was 15 years ago. They crossed this with low labour cost manufacturing among other things. Right now china's labour has tripled to $ 3.52 vs 0.92 $ in India. We should absorb the companies that are relocating from there or they go to Vietnam, Indonesia etc.

    Mate... Dont make this about last government ,this government politics. I am more a Bhakt of Modi than most. But These are oppurtunities we are missing. In this particualr case, if u read the article above, the TN govt responsible for the decision.

    Yeah. I mean it. We have no business being pioneers of clean energy at the forefront of combating climate change. The govt knew this when it refused to give a year for peak emissions of greenhouse gases in the 2015 Paris conference. To continue my previous crude example. We are going to molest planet earth more, because others have molested and are going to continue either way(Trump says he gonna :p) even if we play the saint. Also our historic responsibility for CO2 is very less. The greenhouse gases are the same wherever it is released. We should be doing what makes sense to us economically.On a off note, Delhi pollution is a Particulate pollution mostly by vehicular activity and constuction , they say .

    Have a good day you all~
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2016
  9. Agent_47
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    More recent notice from TNERC. Even today, per unit price can be Rs.11.12 ! depending on category.
    http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/chennai/tnerc-announces-solar-power-tariff/article8420216.ece

    You have no answer to mobile import other than name callings?

    We need basic tech to make thing in the first place. Then we manufacture in scale. You can't just jump start and produce things in cost effective manner.

    Lol, robotics and automation have no place in india ! because we are not part of this world?! These are the same dudes who protested against bringing computers to india, saying it will destroy jobs. Ironically, Today IT/software sector employs million. Changes are inevitable, to remain competitive you have to be efficient.

    Am i reading communist manifesto ?! In the same way with every computer purchase, the money goes to a big company.

    In all seriousness, please understand all these socialist/communist ideas of empowering the poor are tried and failed. That is one thing we can learn from history. In one para you cry foul on capitalists like adani but at the same time you want people like him to make large manufacturing plats so that 'make in india' can happen. Do you understand that manufacturing revolution of china is made by like large corporations by using very low cost workers on 12 hour shifts ? or child laborers to bring the cost down. MNREGA is not the solution its just a socialist way of delaying the inevitable.

    The idea of export let growth cannot solve all indian problems. We can never replicate chinese success at that extent. On the one hand China has massive overcapacity across sectors such as steel, aluminium and coal and on the other hand modern manufacturing is shifting towards automation with the use of robotics which will limit the job creation ability of manufacturing sector. In case of steel itself China’s capacity stands at 822 million tonnes which is almost 10 times to India’s capacity of 86 million tonnes. On top of that the world is moving to automation.As i said before you can't resist it. To some extent , manufacturing will be shifting from China to Robots not to india. Look at the new tesla giga factory, it employs one tenth of the workforce to make similar number of cars and batteries previously!. That is a huge change and its here.

    Think about the current events, brexit and donald trump. World is becoming more are more conservative in thinking. They want more thing to be made home so that more countrymen get jobs. The globalization dream of world trade led growth is fading fast. World is still not recovered from 2008 economic meltdown. It may never be the same. We lost decade of export led growth and it can be blamed at the last government for not learning from the south asian neighbors fast enough.

    Factory Jobs Are Gone. Get Over It
    ‘Make In India’ promises manufacturing jobs for millions. Here’s why it won’t work
    Manufacturing sector: Make in India, but not the ‘China’ way
     
  10. Agent_47
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    We are not doing it because of some 'responsibility '. We do it because solar is now cheaper than coal and this part of the world we get maximum sun cover per year. Just like 'cashless economy' it is a common sense next step. We are just accelerating the process.
     
  11. Dagger
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    Hello
    It was not my intention to devolve to name calling. Merely pointing out that I am not *crying* about anything and just because it happened before should not mean we should let it happen again. I feel that there is an important differnce between mobiles and solar modules
    We were not manufacturing mobiles then, import was the only way to address the need - We are manufacturing modules now! Hence my argument to protect with anti dumping.

    The revised price is still more than 40% higher than coal cost per unit . Isnt that a great margin of profit?

    My point is specifically with unskilled labour. Computer cannot be replaced with unskilled ppl. Have no problems with irreplaceable tools like computers and cranes etc. Just that people should be given jobs.

    Socialist principles are the bedrock of any stable country. The West has a much stronger welfare system than India's. One man cannot prosper with all his fellows struggling to make a living. Firstly its the right thing to do. Secondly heavy wealth inequalities negatively affect the countries stability.
    Here I am not alluding to any communist style division of money- but simply that every man should have the *oppurtunity* to Earn his money with equivalent work.

    I am grateful to adani or any capitalist investing in India- actually think capitalism (greed) is the best engine / motivator of economic growth- I was merely ruing the fact coal power could have been cheaper solution to our needs. and with 40% extra cost- solar power is maybe the future - but right now at best a gimmick.

    I agree that our gap to export is fast closing. I also agree the Chinese will move to Robotics rather than transfer the jobs to lower wage economies.

    My point is that for atleast the Indian necessities- if not the export- We should manufacture locally- We should avoid at all costs a CPEC like situation where we end up as a consumer economy only. We have our own market available to us- we should manufacture for it. Modi is doing an amazing job with the MII ideas in that sense. MII is still the answer- the last govt had shutdown any of my hopes - This govt is showing the light. Modi's plan of Jan Dhan account for the poor and banking for the poor - Financial Inclusion for All- is a socialist plan that will pay off grandly in the long run.

    We have the jobs waiting around us- a lot of infrastructure needs and manufacturing needs - Where possible there should be a focus to give the "opportunity to work" to all is my hope. A robot substiting a mans work should not happen as long as there are unemployed. 1. Its not economical. 2. you are going to have to give the man some money to live anyway- he cant be expected to roll over and die. He will thieve.

    So lets see- I have big hopes. You are misunderstanding that I am cribbing about a world record- I am not- pretty proud of it- BUT I believe economical substitutes are the answer right now. That is all

    Have a good one ~
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2016
  12. Agent_47
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    As i said, we don't have relevant tech yet. This plant was build with imports from all over the world. Companies like SunEdison or foxcon are not sharing the tech even with stake. So, Adani has started building it in house in rajasthan for the phase 1 of the solar park even with 10% additional cost and inefficiency in hope for better tech improved panels in future.

    Who is to blame? Even now TN govt is ready to pay Rs 11. This is how you run a business and taking a risk. You need substantial margin when you invest millions of dollars of money. Most of the money would be corporate loans which they pays interest.

    Please rethink what you wrote. Automation/robotics or computers generally can easily replace any unskilled jobs. That is what they are build for. A car assembly was made up by unskilled workers doing the screwdriver works. Now its all gone. All QA testing are now transferring to automation because computers are good at precision.

    Skilled jobs can't be replaced without substantial AI improvements which is atleast a decade away.

    Worlds biggest economies are not build on socialist principles. They are providing the social security benefits after the maturity of the economy.

    Aging population and excess wealth made it possible. Highly populated nation with a less developed economy cannot implement social security in any measure to west. First you have to eradicate poverty.For that you need high growth rate so that you can have basic income per capta. An educated society is what we should aim for not a welfare state. Because an educated society can be a skilled workforce which is what the whole world lack in coming decades (with their aged population). Giving maximum Freedom will fuel innovation which will in turn help to sustain growth.

    Give an example of a top 10 economy made on socialist ideologies with wealth equality.

    And we don't have time to be another lab for the world. We still have to rescue 300 million of people from poverty. For that we have to choose time tested ways to follow. We are sitting on a demographic time bomb.

    That is the beauty of MII, even if we fail half way through. We would still have capacity make ourselves less dependent on exports and we can produce for our market. You should also consider that our own market's buying power is very very low and we can't make things only to ourselfs because economic of scales won't work.

    CPEC like loan situation is acceptable to us because we are growing very fast so that we can afford to pay the loan in long time. What we need is any kind of investment. In Infrastructure alone we need trillions.

    Long time digital financial inclusion plan was plan was made by UPA. Using Aadhar as base for class less economy called as 'india stack'. Its just a basic necessity, can't be called as a socialist thinking.

    True, infrastructural like industries will continues to need manpower . But it will be gradually automated.

    • A machine will not complain
    • One time investment
    • It will work 24/7
    • Don't need social security
    • No unions to strikes
    • High efficiency
    • You see where i'm going with this?
    You need to be skilled in anything to survive the new world. Success of 'Skill India' is so critical in this aspect. What i am very concerned about is negligence toward education of this government. Every level of education is broken. Higher education system are churning out millions of unskilled unemployable students yearly. A 8 th grade student can't do basic algebra. Serious reforms are much needed to defuse the demographic bomb! .

    PS:literal Robots are decade away what here i referring to are automation,3D printing, robotic manufacturing.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2016
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  13. MilSpec
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    I respectfully disagree, i'll leave it to that.
     
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  14. A_poster
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    Everyone knows that Solar power is very costly. It needs to be promoted because:

    (1) It is a novel disruptive technology, which mean that at this point of time there is no global leader in field of solar tech and we ,if we promote it, could become a R&D and manufacturing leader in this technology. If we ever wish to have ascendancy over established power , WE NEED DISPRUPTIVE TECHNOLOGIES.

    If we try to go head to head against USA in aircraft carriers , WE would LOSE. If we ever have to compete with aircraft carriers, we need to develop tech that render them useless, similar to how aircraft carriers rendered dreadnoughts useless.

    If we try to go head to head against China in low cost manufacturing, We would LOSE. We could not match Chinese subsidies, and even if we succeed in low cost manufacturing, it would further reduce margins ,which already are quiet low. If we need to become a manufacturing power, we need to focus on tech intensive manufacturing ,an area where China has not consolidated as much as it has in low cost manufacturing, and most of companies and governments are wary of any ToT to China. And this is also a sector in which we also are doing very well:

    Read this chapter of Economic survey: http://indiabudget.nic.in/budget2015-2016/es2014-15/echapvol1-07.pdf

    Following is the summary of that chapter:

    (i) Unregistered manufacturing ,which need low skilled, has extremely low productivity in India. This sector is primary driver of Chinese economy and is the one which provides social mobility to ill-educated, less capable individuals. India has advantage in this sector ,but even then this sector is pretty much non-existent from Indian economy because of trade unionism and this is the primary reason why 24.6% of Indian workforce is working on farms and 53% of Indian population is dependent on farm income. There are more farmers that India need and reason for this that low-end manufacturing which could absorb unskilled labour is absent in India due to trade unionism in this area.

    (ii) Registered manufacturing ,which is skill intensive high end manufacturing, is most productive sector of Indian economy, 7.2 times more productive than low-end manufacturing and even more productive than services, and its productivity is very high even in absolute sense- rivaling that of developed countries. In some high end manufacturing sectors like naval shipbuilding, India has even upstaged established industrial powers like UK.

    (iii) Though service sector as a whole has lower productivity than registered manufacturing, productivity level of two services subsectors - Financial services and business services- out of six have higher productivity than registered manufacturing. These sub-sectors of service industry are even more skill intensive than registered manufacturing and their products resemble that of manufacturing products.

    If you ever visit PDF ,read Syama Ayas's post in "India boycott of Chinese cracker thread (I forgot exactly which so use search option)". He has listed statistics of Indian import and manufacturing in detail while arguing with Chinese. Contrary to popular belief, India manufactures majority of electronics that it consume. It is true that import from China is quite high, but it is nowhere as bad as Toy manufacturing industry where Chinese import has completely destroyed Indian toy manufacturing industry.

    It is very easy to build a Microsoft when there is no Microsoft present, to build Google when there is no Google, to build an Intel, when there is no Intel; but it is impossible to uproot an already established entity, unless you come up with a disruptive technology.

    (2) Semiconductors industry is improving with each year. There are three type of PV cells: Silicon cells, compound cells, and organic cells. Silicon cells could be further divided into single crystal, poly-crystalline, and amorphous; and different type of organic cells. Compound cells like Gallium Arsenide and Galliun nitride cells are most efficient at conversion with efficiency of 20%+ and it is here where there are real opportunities, and improvement here would directly benefit our Radar program and vice vera. Amorphous silicon cells are least efficient at 2-3% and are used in extremely low cost electronics. Out of poly crystalline and single crystal cells, single crystal cells are more efficient at 15% compared to 10% of polycrystalline cells, but cost-to-benefit ratio of polycrystalline cells is more than of single crystal. Organic cells cost similar to compound cells, but have efficiency of an amorphous PV cell, but this is again a tech frontier where real gains of investing in R&D lies.

    There is no clear cut leader in PV tech field like there is Google in search engines. We need a push in this sector ,with a focus on accumulating intellectual property. If we do not do that ,it would play out in same way as out Aircraft manufacturing has turned out where we trail world leader by a generation and half.

    (3) Future of energy sector lies in Fusion technology, PV cell technology, Hydrogen Fuel cell, and energy storage technology; and in these fields we are not pathetic like we are in traditional technology domain where established power put an unsurpassable lead over us. On top of it, we are an extremely energy deficient country. We have no oil, no gas, no good quality coal (Indian coal has shit quality). We need to wholeheartedly support this paradigm shift in energy technology as it would save us FOREX and bankrupt patrons and spiritual masters of our enemy.



    You are 100% correct here, and it is about time GoI get serious about tackling Chinese dumping, whether it is in PV cells or steel. India is a big enough market that if GoI become aggressive on Chinese dumping, big companies would be forced to bring their manufacturing to India.

    Also the benefits mentioned in first part of this post would only be accured ,only if government shield Indian companies from Chinese dumping and competition. Brown Sahibs who rant against protectionism all the time are usually common sense and history fail. While overprotection retard innovation, no industry has ever developed in face of predatory dumping like being done by China. In history to, European industry developed because they were shielded by protective tarrifs imposed on British goods ,which industrialized first; and British textile industry came into existence because of protective tarrifs imposed on Indian handicrafts. Uptil 1815 ,when steam engine were pressed into providing power to factories, Indian handicraft have cost advantage over even English factory made textiles. The factories which destroyed Indian handicrafts came into existence because English protected their factories with protective tarrifs in its infancy; and when Indians needed protective tarrifs, there were none because Britishers have conquered most of India.


    This is a regressive way of approaching the issue, and no one in history have prevailed with this mentality. In 16th century, Turks banned printing press stating that it would put scribes out of business. The effect of this move was that literary output of Turkey in 1914 was less than that of UK in 1600's. Printing press ,even though it put scribes and calligraphers out of business, was the most important invention ,after language and numbers, in human history; and is solely responsible for renaissance, scientific and industrial revolution. Turkey ignored it and look happened to Ottomon empire.

    Mulayam singh Yadav demaded ban on computers in 1980s because according to him it will kill jobs. Had GoI listened to him then, there would be no IT sector, no DBT, no Digital India. Some other country would have taken lead in outsourcing and IT and we would have been left out holding our dick ,again. I am saying again because this has already happened with us in textiles. Multi Fiber Agreement ,which used to govern textile quotas for Europe expired on 1st Jan 2005. On the date that it expired, Chinese dumped the yearly demand of textiles in Europe at rate of pennies, in response to which EU blocked its shipment uptil September, an incident which is called Bra wars. The question here to ask is why China? Why not India? The reason for that is "pro-poor" policies of GoI which imposed penalties on factories as their size increase. This meant that Indian textile industry was dominated by small and medium enterprises which could not compete with efficiency of large size factories of China. The money and employment that could have been ours was lost to China due to government taking route of populism. Similar thing has happened in SEZs. In late 1970's and early 1980's, the idea of establishing export oriented coastal SEZs was shot down by congress government, believing that it cannot succeed. Well it succeeded, but it did so in China. Modi is trying to do this now with his Sagarmala project, after 30 years of its due date. If similar was done with computers, there would have been no IT industry.

    See, Automation is coming. Even if we withdraw from it, other won't. It is better that we place ourself in a position where we could extract benefits from it. Automation is not destroyer of employment. It just shift employment from one type to others. Machines would require coders to write their software, engineers and workers to build them, and mechanics and technicians to maintain them. Instead of keeping treating poor like mushrooms (keep then in dark and feed them shit), we need to improve their human capital so that rather than pulling levers in a factory, they could change oil of machines. A lot of people would be left behind due to this paradigm shift, but if we try to resis it, everyone would be left behind.

    That said I completely support you on this specific issue of robotic cleaning machines, but that so because in this instance, that robotic cleaning mechanism is not creating any jobs in India (it is creating jobs in China). Has it caused potential job loss for solar panel cleaners, but at the same time created jobs for those who would be designing and manufacturing that robotic mechanism in India, I would have wholeheartedly supported replacement of manual labour with robotic mechanism.



    Skill India is there to improve skills of Indians so that they could get employment in skill intensive sectors. Low skill manufacturing is not relocating to India is more a function of labour laws, than skills.

    See, the benefits of this race to bottom are marginal ,and probably Modi too recognize that, hence he is focusing on skill development programs. That and some sector like apparel manufacturing (not cloth manufacturing) could not be automated and required skilled labour.



    It is not an either-or situation. We could be pioneers in renewable energy ,doing it just right enough that it sustain innovation in that industry, while fulfilling major part of our needs with Coal-Power. This global warming has given us a very good excuse for doing so as this means that everyone has to have some costly renewable energy in their energy matrix, thus could not outcompete out manufacturing by having access to cheap energy.

    Though if Trump pull USA out of agreement, we also should.
     
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  15. Aqwoyk
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    Aqwoyk 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Off-topic bhai but I always wanted to ask from you as you know some people who work at hal. Is a total competitor to hal is required in country? would hal be able to handle subsequent next gen combat aircraft(s) in a speedy manner after Ade and they messed with tejas?
     

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