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Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC) News & Discussions

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by CONNAN, Dec 3, 2010.

  1. CONNAN

    CONNAN Major ELITE MEMBER

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    References

    1. “French Aircraft Carrier Participation to Afghanistan Operations; Key Lessons Learnt for the Future Aircraft Carrier and her Carrier Air Wing”—Paper presented by RAdm Jean-Louis Kerignard, French Navy at the Annual Maritime Power Conference, 2010, organized by the National Maritime Foundation at New Delhi.
    2. “Carrier Renaissance: New Wave Designs to Maximise Innovation”--- Bill Sweetman, Janes International Defence Review, Vol 39, October 2006.
    3. “The Challenges of Evolving a Big Aircraft Carrier- The UK Experience”---Paper presented by RAdm Bob Love, OBE, Royal Navy at the Annual Maritime Power Conference, 2010, organized by the National Maritime Foundation at New Delhi.
    4. “Two of a Kind: Pragmatism Drives UK Carrier Construction Scheme” --- Richard Scott, Janes International Defence Review, Vol 42, September 2009
    5. “Challenges of Carrier design and Construction – Limited Budgets”--- Paper presented by Commodore AK Khetan, VSM, Indian Navy at the Annual Maritime Power Conference, 2010, organized by the National Maritime Foundation at New Delhi.
    6. http://www.indiandefencereview.com/...ations-for-Indigenous-Aircraft-Carrier-2.html


    ALL THE ABOVE POST ARE TO GIVE THE INFORMATION REGARDING OUR FUTURE CARRIERS THANK YOU HOPE YOU FIND IT USEFUL
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2011
  2. CONNAN

    CONNAN Major ELITE MEMBER

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    Admiral Gorshkov getting ready for mooring trials

    [​IMG]

    MOSCOW (BNS): Indian Navy’s Russian-built aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov is getting ready for mooring trials at the Sevmash Shipyard in Severodvinsk.

    Major works on the aircraft carrier to be completed in the coming months would be installation of auxiliary steam piping systems and air conditioning systems.

    That would mark the beginning of their completion for mooring trials, the shipyard said.

    An Indian team, which is presently in Russia to oversee the refurbishing work on the naval vessel, has also met higher officials of the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) which has undertaken the task of repairing and modernising Admiral Gorshkov.

    The delivery of the aircraft carrier to India has been delayed since 2008.

    India had inked a deal with Russia in 2004 to buy the warship at a cost of $974 million.

    However, with the Russian shipyard hiking its cost for repair and refit work, the final price of the aircraft carrier went up to $2.33 billion.

    Indian Navy now looks forward to receive the 45,000-tonne warship by 2012 end or early 2013 which will be rechristened as INS Vikramaditya.
     
  3. CONNAN

    CONNAN Major ELITE MEMBER

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    Mooring began testing the aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya

    [​IMG]
    In Severodvinsk shipyard Sevmash began testing the aircraft carrier Vikramaditya (formerly Admiral Gorshkov), the modernization of Russia which is held by the Indian Navy, according to ITAR-TASS . . During this phase of work will be checked all the systems on board the ship, including the avionics of the Russian and Indian manufacturing, and aviation facilities. As expected, sea trials the aircraft carrier will begin in late 2011.

    . The contract to supply India's aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya was signed in 2004. Under the deal, the hull of the Indian Navy received for free, but subject to the modernization at the yard, as well as equipping deck aircraft of Russian origin. The deal amounted to 1,5 billion dollars. In 2008, India has suspended payments, and Russia raised the issue of revising the scope of work and increased cost. The new agreement on the modernization was signed in March 2010, and its cost has increased to 2,3 billion dollars.

    In November 2010, it was reported that the Defense Ministry of India has suffered Adopt the aircraft carrier "Vikramaditya" in December 2012. Under the original schedule, the ship was to be delivered to the customer in early 2012. The reason for the postponement was the need for additional work on the aircraft carrier and the rescheduling of tests of the modernized spacecraft.

    Lenta.ru:
     
  4. kish

    kish FULL MEMBER

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    which is better for a aircraft career

    ski jump

    catapult

    vertical take off
     
  5. Hashu

    Hashu Lieutenant SENIOR MEMBER

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    vertical take off if your planes allow you too, cause than u can store more planes! than catapult! cause it's faster!
     
  6. Vritra

    Vritra Major ELITE MEMBER

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    Ski-jump requires the some modification on a plane to let it perform take of at short distances. But it's the cheaper, easier alternative.

    CATOBAR has the advantage of allowing conventional aircraft with nothing more than strengthened landing gears to take off/land on the deck; it requires a lot of maintenance and steam power to work, both of which they're attempting to fix with the EMALS system.

    STOVL/VTOL, imo, are not good at all, given the current level of technology. Because of the effect it has on the aircraft, i.e., not on the carrier. Having to waste a whole lot of internal space on a lift engine sacrificing thrust/weight ratio in level flight, payload capacity, internal fuel volume etc. just doesn't seem to be worth it. Whoever figures out how to get the same engine to vertically lift and fly an aircraft without resorting to tiltrotor/dual engines is gonna be sitting on a goldmine.
     
  7. Bad Wolf

    Bad Wolf Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    catapul is best
     
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  8. jagjitnatt

    jagjitnatt Major ELITE MEMBER

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    Ok, everyone seems to have his/her own opinion. Let me share mine.
    I think that STOBAR assisted with a ski-jump is the best option today. It doesn't need humongous amounts of energy, so a conventional power plant is sufficient. No special equipment needs to be installed on the carrier except for arresting wires, which isn't much big a deal. This makes the carrier a LOT cheaper to build and operate.

    CATOBAR, or steam catapults are very expensive, complex, and need a LOT of energy to operate. It needs a nuclear power plant, and takes up a LOT of space on the carrier, thereby making the carrier bigger, and way more expensive.

    Vertical take-off and landing is the worst thing one could think of. For a vertical take off, the aircraft needs to have a T/W ratio of greater than 1. There is currently no aircraft in the world which has a T/W ratio of 1 or greater with full fuel, not to mention any weapons. No aircraft can manage that with weapons which makes the whole idea useless. Also, in order to land, a certain amount of fuel is required, any excess fuel needs to be jettisoned into the ocean, which is downright inefficient.

    So STOBAR is my take. Anyone agree?
     
  9. Guynextdoor

    Guynextdoor Lt. Colonel SENIOR MEMBER

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    You are missinng the biggest advatange of the catapult. It allows you to throw a diverse set off platforms. A hawkeye will most probably never take off a Stobar. But a cat can throw that off the deck too and get a mini awacs doing the rounds.
     
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  10. flanker143

    flanker143 Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    vtol is total waste for aircraft carriers....

    regarding stobar and catobar... i feel both approaches have their pros and cons.....
    stobar is cheap and and virtually maintainance free.....but i doubt if ski jumps can launch heavier planes like the e2c hawkeye or even all types of naval fighters bcoz i think the ski jump ramps have very specific degree of inclination for the aircraft they operate , also fighter jets cannot be launched by ski jump with their full payload capacity....

    although catobar is expensive , maintainence intensive , bulky........but can't these problems be solved to some extent by using emals to some extent ??

    catobars require alot of power and take up alot of space........ending up a large aircraft carrier......but i dont see a problem in that....i mean who won't want that !!!
    pack in more fighter jets , have dedicated aew platforms , more fuel supplies ammo bla bla.......
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2011
  11. Capt.Popeye

    Capt.Popeye Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    I disagree on some points.
    Referring to the first underlined part:
    STOBAR is the cheapest option, not the best for the simple reason that that method of launching drastically curtails an aircraft's payload. Let me correct one point about the wire arrester gear. It is not just 3 or 4 arrester wires equally spaced out on the carrier's deck.
    Rather it consists of 3 or 4 arrester wires each spooled to an arrangement of large hydraulic rams or pistons designed to pay out under shock-loads when the aircraft's 'tail-hook' engages a particular wire. This whole arrangement absorbs the sudden loading and rapidly decellerates the aircraft while paying out the spooled wire. This is a complex arrangement that requires a robust hydraulic pressure balancing system. The system requires maintenance of the hydraulics and periodic replacement of the arrester wires that suffer sharp deformations to their construction during the arrests. So it is not very cheap either.
    But a STOBAR carrier will not be able to launch an aircraft like the 'Hawkeye', that is a down-side too.

    Now the second underlined part:
    About CATOBAR, while catapults are expensive and 'somewhat' maintenance prone, they have some other attributes as well; they are steam operated, so that means that there has to be a large boiler to supply that steam in copious amounts. In ships like the "Vikrant" aka IAC 1; the boiler on board will be rather small considering that the propulsion will be CODAG or CODOG- thus the steam available will be rather small in quantity, making a catapult difficult to operate. In case of "Vikramaditya" there are 4 boilers on board for the main propulsion steam turbines. So while there will be steam available, chances are that there is no surplus availability of steam since the designed capacity of the boilers was (and is) only for the turbines.
    That said, the requirement for steam has to be met by boilers; either fuel-fired or nuclear. So a nuclear reactor is not a must; contrary to your statement above. Now about space requirements for a catapult launching system on board, it is quite compact, since it only has a substantial linear dimension under deck. The boiler has a cubic dimension. Please remember that the old INS Vikrant which was a small "light aircraft carrier" had a catapult till it was discarded with the advent of the Sea Harriers, which did not need it (so for that matter did the HMS Hermes). Finally regarding catapults, they are made only in the USA, so while the RN and French Navy had access to them the Soviet/Russian Navy did not. So they designed their carriers (large cruisers actually) differently. Even India had a 'Hobson's Choice' when the Sea-Hawks had to be retired. As it is the IN was struggling to maintain "Vikrant's" catapult because of 'choking' of spares, and the only aircraft that could be launched by that catapult was the A-4 Skyhawk which the Americans were reluctant to sell (though there was some maybe yes/maybe no discussions). So the Sea Harrier in fact gave a lease of life to the "Vikrant" though some thought was also given to acquiring the Yakovlev 'forgers' from SU (but abandoned, since it was a poor aircraft).

    About the 'jettisoning fuel' bit: all aircraft while recovering on the carrier has to dump extra fuel regardless of an arrested recovery or vertical landing. The difference being that in the case of arrested recovery, there is retained just a little bit for a 'go-around' or as the correct expression is 'a Bolter'.
    Since I mentioned 'Bolter', let me also add that in Naval Aviation parlance,on the carrier; an aircraft never takes off or lands. The aircraft is launched and recovered.
    After all, every landing on a carrier is a "controlled crash-landing!". Just my two paisa.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2011
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  12. CONNAN

    CONNAN Major ELITE MEMBER

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    Indian shipyard building Indigenous Aircraft carrier to expand with RS. 500 crore investment[/B]

    Kochi: The Public sector Cochin Shipyard Ltd is proposing to expand its existing capacity through a shiplift system with an investment of Rs 500 crore, a top official today said.

    The new system is likely to come up at the northern end of the CSL estate and would be 120 metre long and able to accommodate ships up to 6,000 tonnes, CSL Chairman and Managing Director, Commodore K Subramaniam, told reporters here.

    The project is likely to be taken up by next year. The shipyard has two drydocks. One of the docks is being used for the construction of the Indigenous Aircraft carrier of the Indian Navy and the other is used for ship building and ship repair. Once the shiplift system gets completed it is likely to ease the congestion in the drydock.

    At present, the yard has orders for 34 ships consisting 14 Offshore Platform vessels for domestic and international owners and 20 Fast Patrol vessels for the Coast Guard totally valued at Rs 4,000 crore.

    CSL is hoping to get more orders from the Indian Navy very soon,he said.

    Recession did have an impact on the shipyard as it did not receive any orders from 2008 to September 2010. After Sept 2010, the yard received orders for 24 ships of the 34 ships.

    The effect of recession will be felt this year and the next year. "We had a very good growth in the last 5 years. That will not be there this year and the next year. But our performance would not be affected." he said.

    The shipyard's shipbuilding income increased to Rs 1,012 crore in 2009-10 from Rs 222 crore in 2005-06.

    CSL has been diversifying into new areas of construction and repairs over the last few years and had successfully completed two major ship conversion projects, one for a Singapore based owner and the other for National Institute for Oceanography , Goa.

    The former was a conversion of a fishing vessel to research vessel and the latter was a conversion of fishing vessel to a seismic survey one.

    Shipyard to expand with Rs 500 crore investment - The Economic Times
     
  13. CONNAN

    CONNAN Major ELITE MEMBER

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    Admiral Gorshkov to reach Murmansk

    The aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov is expected is to reach Murmansk in November 2011. The vessel is to be sold to India upon completion of the upgrade works.

    The vessel will be delivered to Murmansk ship-repair yard # 35, say the unconfirmed sources at Sevmash. The aircraft carrier is expected to take performance tests and some further upgrade at the ship repair yard, informs the leak.

    Originally known as Baku, the vessel was renamed after Admiral Gorshkov (Soviet naval officer) in 1991 following the Soviet Union collapse. The aircraft incident (see video below) brought the vessel to Murmansk in 1992 for repair works. In 1994, another incident happened aboard that took away the lives of 6 persons as a result of a steampipe explosion.

    In 1994, Russia started the sales negotiations with India at the price of $974 mln for rehabilitation and modernisation of Admiral Gorshkov. The contract was signed in 2004. However, the story took other returns: the deadlines were repeatedly exceeded while the contract price has reached 2,3 bln USD. In 2007, the breach of the contract deadlines ousted the ex-director of Sevmash, Vladimir Pastukhov, out of his position; this week the Sevmash board will confirm resignation of the current director - Nikolay Kalistratov (one of the formal reasons - another exceeded dealine for Admiral Gorshkov reconstruction). The experts assume that the new resignation may push the reconstruction deadline further that is currently believed to be in late 2012.

    Late in 2010, Sevmash as a general contractor for Prirazlomnaya platform owned by Gazprom started upgrading the facilities of the Murmansk-based ship repair yard # 35. The stem structure of Prirazlomnaya was mounted at Sevmash (Severodvinsk, Arkhangelsk region), yet shallow waters of the White Sea would not allow to proceed with the construction without relocating the platform to Murmansk. According to the initial plans, Prirazlomnaya is expected to be ready by August 2011 before the arrival of Admiral Glushkov. However, presently Sevmash cannot confirm the deadlines.

    Admiral Gorshkov to reach Murmansk | Barentsnova
     
  14. Ved Mishra

    Ved Mishra Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    What will be self defence weapons on board INS Vikramaditya and IAC 1?
    If both are going for Mig29ks, what will be the maximum effective range of these carriers as both will be non-nuclear.
    And most interesting thing is what will be the other types of ships and submarines which will be deployed with these carriers which may work just like the CBGs of US.

    Will we have the capability of sea denial in our entire Indian ocean region?
     
  15. CONNAN

    CONNAN Major ELITE MEMBER

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    Navy gearing up to lay hands on Vikramaditya


    First Published : 15 Apr 2011 02:36:50 AM ISTLast Updated : 15 Apr 2011 09:56:05 AM IST
    NEW DELHI: The Indian Navy will finally get to lay its hands on INS Vikramaditya as the first batch of officers and sailors have begun training on the aircraft carrier, seven years after the contract to buy the warship was signed with Russia.
    After much delay, the crew is being prepared to take the delivery of the aircraft carrier by the end of 2012. Officials said the first batch to commence training in St Petersburg has 150 personnel, this includes officers and sailors. The numbers will increase gradually, as the ship weighing around 40,000 tonnes, will have a crew of 1400 excluding the air component. The first three to four months of the training would be theory classes after which they would move to the ship for practical aspects of handling a ship, the biggest ever in the Indian Navy.
    Officials said it signals that the work was on track and the warship should be ready for sea trials before the delivery was taken. A price row had delayed the work upsetting the delivery schedule and Navy’s operational preparedness.
    When the deal was signed in 2004, $964 million cost was fixed for the warship, earlier known as Admiral Gorshkov. But some years down the line, Russians demanded more money saying the scope of work had improved because of confusion over some clauses in the contract.
    They demanded $2,9 billion. After a fresh round of price negotiations, the Ministry of Defence settled for $2.3 billion.
    The aircraft carrier is one of the key aspects of Navy’s expansion plans. At the moment, the sole carrier - INS Viraat - has undergone massive overhaul for expansion of its life.
    Experts believe that after retrofitting, Viraat can be used effectively for many more years. Navy would ideally like to have three aircraft carriers.
    After Viraat and Vikramaditya, the third one, being produced at Kochi, would be ready for induction by the end of this decade.
    This means that, by 2020, India should have three aircraft carriers, the only Navy in this region to have such a capability.

    Navy gearing up to lay hands on Vikramaditya | Vikramaditya | | Indian Express
     

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