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Is The Indian Air Force On A Flight Path Of Extinction?

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Averageamerican, Sep 1, 2017.

  1. sunstersun

    sunstersun Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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  2. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    You must be dumb to think people who build F-16s or for that matter even turboprop aircraft are paid 10 dollars a day.
     
  3. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Money.

    AWACS has no competitor. So the Russians raised prices.

    Same thing with the refuelers. Airbus needs Boeing as a competitor.
     
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  4. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    More like a government that understands the need of an actual DM, that is independent from the PMO and works to make the forces stronger to protect the country. But if you have a government that is acting on political favourism, pushed by privat industry interests and a lot of PR and photo ops, this happens.

    The CCS chaired by the PM has approved the funding of 2 more AWACS last year and still the contract is not signed. We also seem to be ready to pay the same amount of money for the US2 amphibious aircrafts, just for political reasons, but no operational benefit whatsoever.
    So neither the lack of money, or the other excuses you make has any importance, the government has just the wrong priorities.
     
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  5. Notsuperstitious

    Notsuperstitious 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    The last refuellers contract was signed 15 years ago and for Israeli AWACS 13 years ago.

    In light of that the money excuse does not stand because these are critical systems and it is hard to believe we did not plan for these in one and a half decades.

    OTOH those 13 and 15 years number also tells us what a disaster MMS, Antony and Italians mafia gang was for defence.
     
  6. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    The Russians raised the price of the IL-76s. That's why it's stuck.
     
  7. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    That's not entirely correct. It was Antony who approved the DRDO AWACS based on the Embraer platform and the 2 additional A50 AWACS were DAC approved under him in Feb 2014 before the elections, just as the A330 MRTT tankers were shortlisted and DAC approved earlier and past over during the elections.
    So all the new DM had to do, was to get final clearance and sign the contracts. Instead the AWACS deal keeps getting delayed and the tanker deal was cancelled.

    Antonys however had his share in the tanker mistake too, since he delayed the tender to invite Boeing initially. So the current government just repeated his mistake now again, just as with blanket blacklisting.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  8. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Not only the Russians but also the Israelis and that happen years ago, before the current government was in power. In the meantime the same price got DAC and CCS approval by this government, so don't make up excuses for incompetence.

    How often did the PM and Arun Jaitley met with Russians? Why didn't the PM fixed issues during his Israel visit?
     
  9. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    The Russians raised the prices a few months ago.
     
  10. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Again, don't make up excuses for incompetence. The government is sitting on the deal for 3.5 years now!
     
  11. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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  12. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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  13. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    So what if DAC clears it. All work happens only after CCS clears a deal. The deal could have been stuck for thousands of reasons. This includes availability of technology itself.

    This is a strategic deal, not a tender. So CCS clearance gives way directly to contract negotiations, not a competition. And contract negotiations cannot begin unless all the pieces are in place.
     
  14. Notsuperstitious

    Notsuperstitious 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    @Sancho @randomradio instead of going down this commin man route, lets accept the truth.

    That there are a few individuals who screw us up no matter who is in power. Our khakhi, babu and dalal guys...
     
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  15. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Accepting the truth will be difficult for randomradio as you can see, but the problem is not only the delay of modernisation, but the whole approach of the government the defence.

    - in 3.5 years, we now had 3 to 4 DMs (which itself is a shame if you can't find anybody to do it properly)

    - we see the same mistakes of cancelled tenders for no reasons

    - we see the same blanket blacklisting, that is effecting modernisation

    - we see silly political deals, against the benefit of the forces

    - we see (fake) DAC and CCS approvals, that don't lead to actual signing of the contract

    - we see defence procurement policy focused only on the interests of privat industry, rather than the needs of the forces and improving the industrial capability we have

    So all that together is what makes Indian defence weaker today, as a result of government policy and that although we hoped for improvements in this field.
     
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