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IVC may pre-date Egypt's pharoahs: Ancient society is 2,500 years older than thought

Discussion in 'General History' started by Tejasmk3, Jan 17, 2017.

  1. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    This explains nothing. Here we are talking of genetics and if you are an Indian, you are bound to have genes common to Indians. Or are you stating that religion can change genes.
     
  2. vsdoc

    vsdoc 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    I'm saying, there are two distinct races in India.

    Given enough time, even a generation or two, forget a hundred leave alone a few thousand years, if the right guy mates with the right girl, genetics of the resultant offspring will show traces of both.

    That proves nothing beyond the fact that somewhere someone mated across racial lines.

    You have still not explained how India has Australoid and Caucasoid people living side by side.

    Who was here first?

    Ot is it your contention that both were here together.

    For 40000 years.

    And yet today in 2017 it's ridiculously easy to make out who is who.

    Cheers, Doc

    P.S. I have not spoken about religion or faith at all. You did.

    A Freudian slip? :)
     
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  3. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    And I am trying to tell you that we Indians are one group of people. We have always been such and the same has been proven by genetics. The so called two race theory is a myth created by the very same people who propagated AIT. I would request you to share any kind of genetic research to prove your point. I have shared with you three different genetic studies from India, Europe and America to prove my point. How can they all be wrong.
    I did not speak about faith you did when you said that you are not a hindu while the truth is that you live in Hindustan which makes you a Hindu as Hindu is not a caste or religion. In its true meaning it means people of the land east of River Sindhu.
     
  4. vsdoc

    vsdoc 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Yup, I used Hindu in much the same way. Geographically. As you did now when you not so deftly shifted the goalpost.

    But what you said originally in the earlier post was about religion and genes.

    It is pretty clear that anthropologically, Hindus (including Indic converts to Islam over the past thousand years) are two very different people. Who have been living in close proximity (geographically and culturally and linguistically and spiritually) for 3500 to 5000 years.

    Which is the widely accepted age and timeline of the Rig Veda.

    The oldest Gathas date back to 6500 to 8000 years.

    The Vendidad and the Zend Avesta around the Rig Veda give or take a thousand years, here less than there.

    Cheers, Doc

    P.S. Yes, Parsis are pretty clearly Hindu Zoroastrians. And proudly so. No arguments on that. You will find no Parsi argue on that.

    Until you start the OOI fairytales ....
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2017
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  5. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    You probably missed out reading those links that I posted. There is nothing as ANI & ASI. this differentiation is a created one and genetics has proven they are one and same with no clear distinction between the two. It also proves that we did not have caste system but Varna system to classify people and that explains free intermixing as even the so called dalits have same genes as upper caste as upper caste have genes similar to dalits. Caste system is a very recent phenomenon dating back to just about 1600 yrs as proven by genetics.
     
  6. nik141993

    nik141993 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    there is clearly a difference between north & south people, no amount of BS can change that. The earliest people in India were probably andamanese. then came Australoids who probably form bulk of subcontinent population as well as south east Asia.then came Dravidians who were mixed middle eastern Caucasians but got heavily mixed with natives Australoid ,same thing happen in SEA later when Mongoloid people from southern China enter SEA & mix heavily with the native displacing rest deeper into jungles or south . Dravidians probably were the IVC people with no cast based rigid hierarchy system, they got mixed heavily with native & become native, this mixing went on for thousand of year with population increasing from few to couple of million, over population along with climate change as monsoon shifted eastwards forced the people to migrate from southern Punjab to north Punjab & probably as far as eastern haryana, rest of India was still a huge jungle at this time full off beasts & malaria ridden mosquitos as well as Australoid people...at the same time successive huge migration start happening from central asia & they brought with them the ultimate weapon called horse which routed the native Dravidians in north pushing a huge chunk depper into east center & south & mixing with rest as a large chunk of these invaders were man who needed native women to mate ,in the process the conquerors gets the fertile plain of western punjab . few century later population exploded in Punjab due to continuous migration & high fertility rate pushing the conquerors to expand east resulting in mass scale deforestation of eastern Punjab & in couple of centuries the whole of southern gangetic plain, probably million of Australoid died or I say massacred during Aryans eastwerd expansion into gangetic plains pushing the remaining population deeper central east & south where they are still found to this day compare to North or western India.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2017
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  7. vsdoc

    vsdoc 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    You make an important point about the invading gene pool being predominantly male, mixing with native females. A factor conveniently ignored by the recent spare of OOI genetic studies.

    The same was seen, albeit to a lesser extent with the Muslim invasions much later on. Lesser in volume and time.

    There is no denying that even in India, we see a distinct impact on the phenotype among parts of the Muslim community. More pronounced in the upper classes than the lower.

    Which came from selection pressure during the mixing of bloodlines down the hierarchical tree of the invading foreign Muslim armies. Till they got diluted by native foot soldiers.

    Cheers, Doc
     
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  8. Golden_Rule

    Golden_Rule Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    The Dravida tribes mentioned in Mahabharata and other Sanskrit literature do not have any connection with Zend Avesta. None of their literature use the appellation 'Ahura' or 'Asura' for denoting nobility. So from where did this concept of Aryan-Dravidian divide come from? It is a myth created in the 19th century. This mythology of Aryan-Dravidian opposition was created to divide India on the basis of regional differences. This myth identifies people in southern India as Dravidian and people in northern India as Aryan and then wrongly portray the Dravidians as the Asuras or the descendants of Asuras. Asuras are mentioned predominantly in the Puranas (which is a post-Vedic, post-epic literature) as demons who were opposed by the Devas! The Devas, as per Puranic-lore, include Siva, Brahma and Vishnu whom the south Indians also consider as gods. Any southern Indian person who believed in these Devas; who now come to believe in this myth of Aryan-Dravidian divide will then identify himself first as a Dravidian; then as an Asura; and then without a doubt will reject his religion and will now become an easy target for religious conversion! Or he will now become an atheist!

    Not only the southern Indians are thus deluded. The Aryan-Dravidian theorist went further to place the origin of the Vedas father and farther away from India. Thus the people in northern India, who were considered by these theorists and myth-makers as Aryans, themselves lost any interest in the Vedas. This was because, they were told they were not the pure Aryans but were a mixture of the pure Aryans from outside India and the Dravidians in India. It was then established that the pure Aryan race who came to India as foreigners authored the Vedas in a foreign land far away from India some where in the far north-west, before coming to India! Every Indian north or south was forced to believe that the Vedas were of a foreign origin and all that culture that Indians hold dear to them, all those revelations in the Vedas and in the Vedantas, everything now became foreign and alien.
     
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  9. Golden_Rule

    Golden_Rule Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    The stealing of Vedas

    Recently we have seen the movie Avatar. We see in it how the culture of the Navi's are completely destroyed (or unsuccessfully attempted to be destroyed) by the invaders. In India, in 19th century, what we saw was not only the attempted destruction of the culture of the native people, but also an attempt to steal away that culture from the natives. The credit for the authorship of the Vedas was almost taken away from the Indians or the Vedas were often mis-interpreted and discredited. The stealing of the Vedas is a common motif found in many Puranas! An Asura is mentioned as stealing the Vedas from Brahma and then Vishnu is mentioned as recovering it from the Asura and restoring the Vedas to where it belonged. This motif is repeated in several Puranas in several forms. In 19th-century-India what we witnessed was the realization of this myth of stealing of the Vedas!

    After the invasion, after the attempted destruction of the native-culture and after the attempted stealing of that culture in 19th century, the Aryan-Dravidian theorist went further and put all these three charges of invasion, destruction of the native-culture and stealing of the culture that they did to the natives during their period, upon the hypothetical (better word is mythical) 'Aryans'! Thus as per this Aryan-Dravidian mythology, the mythical 'Aryans' invaded the mythical 'Dravidians' and destroyed their culture and finally stole the culture from them! Instead of 19th century, they set the time period for this invasion to around 1200 BC to make it look more realistic! For those who asked for proof, they showed the ruins of the Indus Valley civilization, (which declined due to natural causes, like the drying up of the rivers that sustained them) and said it was all ruined by the (mythical) 'Aryan Invasion' that happened around 1200 BC!

    In retrospect, the myth of the Aryan-Dravidian divide, and the myth of Aryan Invasion was a self-reflection of the creators of this myth on what they did to the natives of India in 19th century AD, attributed upon the mythical 'Aryans' who did a mythical invasion of India around 1200 BC.
     
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  10. vsdoc

    vsdoc 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    ^^^ in a nutshell the driving force (insecurities) behind the engineered revisionism of the OOI succinctly explained.

    (The first post. Haven't had time to read the second)
     
  11. vsdoc

    vsdoc 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    When the dam of reason bursts, the sky is the limit.

    Next to feature - albinoid Dravidians and horses being indigenous to the subcontinent for 50000 years ....
     
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  12. Tejasmk3

    Tejasmk3 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Horses and rhinos originated in India


    Horses and rhinos likely originated in the Indian subcontinent, over 54 million years ago, according to a new study.

    Working at the edge of a coal mine in India, researchers at the Johns Hopkins University and colleagues have filled in a major gap in science’s understanding of the evolution of a group of animals that includes horses and rhinos.

    The group likely originated on the subcontinent when it was still an island headed swiftly for collision with Asia, the researchers said.

    Modern horses, rhinos and tapirs belong to a biological group, or order, called Perissodactyla. Also known as “odd-toed ungulates”, animals in the order have, as their name implies, an uneven number of toes on their hind feet.

    Though paleontologists had found remains of Perissodactyla from as far back as the beginnings of the Eocene epoch, about 56 million years ago, their earlier evolution remained a mystery, said Ken Rose, a professor of functional anatomy and evolution at Johns Hopkins.

    In 2001, Prof. Rose and Indian colleagues began exploring Eocene sediments in western India. In an open-pit coal mine northeast of Mumbai, they uncovered a rich vein of ancient bones. The mine yielded what Prof. Rose said was a treasure trove of teeth and bones.

    More than 200 fossils turned out to belong to an animal dubbed Cambaytherium thewissi, about which little was known.

    In 1990, researchers at the Stony Brook University suggested that several groups of mammals that appear at the beginning of the Eocene, including primates and odd and even-toed ungulates, might have evolved in India while it was isolated. Cambaytherium is the first concrete evidence to support that idea, Prof. Rose said.

    I'm sure scientists, nature magazine is aiding the revisionism due to insecurities....
     
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  13. vsdoc

    vsdoc 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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  14. vsdoc

    vsdoc 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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  15. Golden_Rule

    Golden_Rule Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    The Aryan and Dravidian divide was a creation of the British to divide and conquer India.

    Arayan comes from the Sanskrit root “Arya” - a noble person; a wife called her husband Arya; an authority in the kingdom was addressed as Arya, all the way from north to south India, and east to the west.

    The geographical region of south India is referred to as Dravida - “junction of three seas”.

    These are not two different civilizations, but part of one and the same Vedic civilization
     
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