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Kalyani Group Coming Up With New 155mm/39 ultra light long range howitzer

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by lca-fan, Mar 18, 2017.

  1. lca-fan

    lca-fan Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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  2. HariPrasad

    HariPrasad 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    This gun was in making for last few years. Baba kalyani group has developed an ultralight field guun with just 900 kgweight. Field gun used to weigh above 4 ton earlier.
     
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  3. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Captain Technical Analyst

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    Not sure where the market is in India though. The Kaylani group will have to undertake years and years of trails to get the relevent clearances for their brand new system but it is already too late; 645 M777 are assured now, the first batch will be delivered to the IA by May-June this year and the vast majority will be assembled, intergrated and tested by Mahindra in India.


    @Gessler @MilSpec @PARIKRAMA @Hellfire does the IA have a requirement for >645 ULH?
     
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  4. Inactive

    Inactive Guest


    Where did you get the figure of confirmed 645 M777?
     
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  5. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Captain Technical Analyst

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  6. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Captain Technical Analyst

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    The only way it could enter into IA , would be by limiting the total weight to under 5 tons.And a minimum range of 20km+ with conventional rounds.

    If that happens, then Indian Army has a needs of over 650+ light weight howitzer needs.

    It would get Kalyani a nice chunk.
     
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  7. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Captain Technical Analyst

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    But bro if the M777 will already be ordered to the tune of 645 units, where is the space for the Kalyani gun?
     
  8. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Captain Technical Analyst

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    The follow on "500 piece " order for M777 has yet not been placed and will depend upon a lot of things. Most importantly , 100% of the system being built in India.

    If that doesn't happen and Kalyani actually comes up with a decent gun, we might see M777s follow on orders limited to another 100-150 guns and remaining ~300 or so coming from Kalyani.
     
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  9. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Captain Technical Analyst

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    From what I am told, the GoI/MoD/IA commited to the 500 follow on to secure local AIT, local sourcing of spares, through life support (from a BAE-Mahindra JV) and a substantial discount. There's a reason BAE had softened their position (they were playing very tough with UPA) and adjusted the deal for more favourable terms.


    By the time the Kaylani gun is ready (2022 best case) all 600+ guns could have already been ordered and most delivered. The ground reality doesn't really favour Kaylani now, not to mention the fact that a different weapon for the same catergory will duplicate services and add needless costs for the IA.
     
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  10. lca-fan

    lca-fan Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Yes M777 are confirmed but those are for mountain corp and can be lifted by Chinooks.

    But we also need huge number of guns for field deployment, our artillery sucks and is antique which needs to be modernized and it's here this gun will come handy. World over 155mm gun is standard and we still have 105mm guns which will be replaced with these. This gun being lighter gives flexibility to move it faster from one place to another.
     
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  11. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Captain Technical Analyst

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    Apart from the 114 Dhanush 155/45 gun, all the field guns will be 155/52 guns only . Around 1500+ ATAGS and 300+ Dhanush 155/52. They will replace all the 130mm, 122mm and 105mm guns.

    155/39 ultra light guns will given to not only Mountain Strike Corps but also to strike units focusing on Pakistan.

    If the offer from Kalyani is heavier than 5.5 Tons , it won't make any sense for Indian Army.

    Further a new 105mm gun is under consideration to arm the upcoming amphibious units too. If it happens , around 500 light field guns of the same caliber would be purchased by army too.
     
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  12. lca-fan

    lca-fan Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Please read article, it clearly states it weighs only 4500 kgs or 4.5 tons almost same as M777.
     
  13. Didact

    Didact IDF NewBie

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    The mountain strike corps must rely exclusively on artillery and CAS support to achieve firepower dominance, given that any attack they mount must be on the up, and basic mountain infantry units do not have the firepower advantage to negate the tactical advantage held by the defending side. Executing successful attacks whilst maintaining the element of suprise, therefore, rests on the provision of very large volume, concentrated, accurate firepower at very short notice.
    The current procurement of 145 won't cut it. My estimated requirements, just for the strike corps, are somewhere in the region of 450-510 guns, for offensives along two lines of advance, with a defensive action along the third axis. A part of the shortfall can perhaps be made up by the conventional 155/52s with BB rounds, especially if the area has adequate built up road infrastructure.
    Then there is the question of the two mountain divisions raised in the north East, towards the end of 2009-10. They are still being serviced by reserve stock IFGs/LFGs, which though versatile, are sorely inadequate to provide the nature of heavy support required to stave off a determined chinese push. The shortfall here cannot be met by conventional howitzers as there is almost no infrastructure to move them. To provide an idea, the route to Tawang can be blocked by a single conventional strike, and it could take upto 96 hours to re-open it.
    The total numbers required just for these specific formations would probably number in ~700.
     
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  14. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Captain Technical Analyst

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    They aim to get it.

    But I am not convinced, untill I see the prototype.

    I am also doubtful ,because just saying that Titanium alloys will make it lighter is easier. But Singapore Kinetics, who have surely better experience with Titanium than us, can create the closest competitor of M777 , at 5,400 kg, almost 1.2 Tons heavier.

    The Chinese claim that their AH4 155/39 gun is 4.5 Tons ,but the actual combat weight should be around 5.5 Tons atleast. [ @Hellfire @MilSpec ]

    If they actually get even say 5.5 Tons and HB/HE ammo upto say 25km, and even Re 1 cheaper than M777 , I would surely want that 50% of ULH requirement is fulfilled by this gun, rest 50% by M777.
     
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  15. lca-fan

    lca-fan Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    BTW do you know 105mm Gun made by Kalyani group weighs only 900 kgs? So they can do it (it doesn't matter if Singapore company Kinetics can't do it).

    Also, BAE has enlarged the barrel of M777 by 1.2mts to make it 45 calibre gun, So M777 now has 2 variants 39 & 45 calibre both transportable by chinooks.
     

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