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Kargil war: When an IAF Jaguar had Sharif, Musharraf in its crosshairs

Discussion in 'Military History' started by Agent_47, Jul 24, 2017.

  1. SrNair

    SrNair Captain FULL MEMBER

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    It was an embarrasment .
    USSR and US interfered ,all those sacrifices of soldiers was a goner.
    Pakistan still have that strategic land.
     
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  2. SrNair

    SrNair Captain FULL MEMBER

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    We had Haji Pir pass and such strategic area in our hand and it was conquered with a lot of effort but that was just lost .
     
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  3. Darth Marr

    Darth Marr Captain FULL MEMBER

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    You talk as if India started the war, Pakistan started the war, India was on the defensive and managed to successfully defend Kashmir. There is absolutely no Embarrassment in defending yourself and pushing the attacker into the defensive...
     
  4. Darth Marr

    Darth Marr Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Yes, the country who started the war ended up on the defensive ? How the hell is that an Embarrassment ?
     
  5. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Shastri agreed to give back haji Pir and other areas as IA stated that in any future conflict we may not be able to save Akhnoor as PA had come very close to the town. I do not know how wise that decision was considering we were sitting in Lahore and Sialkot and cud have easily outflanked PA in Akhnoor.
     
  6. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    Can you cite this for me please? What do you think happened to 3 JAT?

    Elaborate on why that happened please.

    Why did that happen?


    Elaborate please
     
  7. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate THINKER

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    The higher leadership, as always, failed at the Lahore front, sitting when they should have used 3 JAT as the spearhead and not ordered them to cross back after the initial breakthrough, only to re-order them to again achieve a break through!!:hitwall:
     
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  8. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    The biggest problem for Indian civil leadership is the lack of military affairs. If Akhnoor was under threat, so were Lahore, Sialkot and Muzaffarabad thru Haji Pir pass. But somehow, even our top military leadership believed the reasons offered by USA and USSR to withdraw. One more big problem is that use of terrain by withdrawing and encircling is very old military tactics but in Indian context, no GOC-in-C or GOC can afford to do that as part of his overall battle plan as he will be accused of failure and sacked. we can lure PA in to killing zones using our terrain and wipe them out but losing even an inch to them is not an option-either as part of tactic or overall battle plan. Irrespective of what the consequences are.
     
  9. shaktimaan

    shaktimaan Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    In the war diary of Yashwantrao Chavan, he wrote that "
    It was later discovered in overall terms only 14-20 per cent of the Indian Army’s ammunition stock had been used up. At the moment of our greatest advantage the army chief’s non-comprehension of the intricacies of the long-range logistics deprived India of a decisive victory.”

    In contrast, Pakistan had expended 80 per cent of its ammo. It had also lost 250 of its latest US-supplied tanks."

    In 2015, Arjan Singh, gave his assessment that the war ended in a stalemate, but only due to international pressure for a ceasefire, and that India would have achieved a decisive victory had hostilities continued for a few days more:

    "For political reasons, Pakistan claims victory in the 1965 war. In my opinion, the war ended in a kind of stalemate. We were in a position of strength. Had the war continued for a few more days, we would have gained a decisive victory. I advised then prime minister Lal Bahadur Shastri not to agree for ceasefire. But I think he was under pressure from the United Nations and some countries."
     
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  10. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Sometimes we have to carry dead load on our shoulders like Vikram and Betal. This idiot Arjan singh shud have been tried for treason and shot dead but he is now Marshall of the Air. he was the man who called up PAF air chief in April 1965 during kutch battles that he will not use IAF to pound PA, without the knowledge and consent of Indian leadership. That gave PA the idea that they can do Ops Gibraltar and snatch J&K from India. I blame only person for 1965 war and that is this Sikh called Arjan Singh. In all the battles that I have studied and all the life that I spent in uniform, I have not come across a similar example of a sitting Air Chief calling up his opposite and telling him that he will not order his men in to war. Can some one please give any such example from history.
     
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  11. SrNair

    SrNair Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Whole world knows Pakistan dont have any choice except defense and further failure .

    The victory would have been complete if those conquered areas were in our hands .

    Our embarassment is that we were forced by USSR and US to return those areas to Pakistan .What was the purpose of our soldiers sacrifice ?

    Like Hell fire said it wasnt a victory but a stalemate .Our we had forced to convert the assured victory to stalemate
     
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  12. SrNair

    SrNair Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Or possibly we were forced to chose that failure , failed ourselves .
    It would have been a success if we bargain those conquered areas with GB or at least PoK .
    Then who were we ?
    That too against unnecessary interference of two superpowers .
     
  13. Darth Marr

    Darth Marr Captain FULL MEMBER

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    If you are looking at it that way, even 1971 was a failure. Nixon wanted to save Pakistan and Indra Gandhi wanted to destroy Pak once and for all. Pressure from US and UK stopped that from happening. Nixon was actually happy about how the war came out considering he fully expected Pakistan to be dismantled by India.
     
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  14. nair

    nair Guest

    Bhai everything available in net is true and everything that is not available on in net is not true either....
     
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  15. nair

    nair Guest

    I agree.. It was not the intention either..... Their presence was later known to India (if the news is true) ....But if killed things would have gone out of control....
     
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