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'Kargil Was a '4-Man Show', Sharif Not Kept Totally in Dark'

Discussion in 'South Asia & SAARC' started by Marqueur, Jan 30, 2013.

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  1. ricky123

    ricky123 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    why r u forgetting the iaf and indian navy roles .. iaf will be critical if at all india army wants to invade .....but i dont think any general in the right mind would do so ... it is a fact a defending enemy no matter how small in numbers can still do some damage ........ i think if india goes to war the indian army will mostly hold its positions and use the iaf and indian navy more ..... u have to see india doesnt want to invade pakistan ..but india would love to destroy those terrorist training camps and nuclear facilities ....

    so the iaf will have the most important part to play here not the army ....
     
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  2. DaRk KnIght

    DaRk KnIght Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Let me tell you how....You raised Taliban with US help....now you are helping US to eliminate them.

    Your forces which should have been posted at Indian border are getting killed by Talibs and that too without any contribution from India.

    Leave the politics.....our leaders say a lot of things....even your leaders/generals were talking about having lunch in Delhi.....

    The funny thing is you people are forced to fight a war and that too not against India.

    Funny aint it?
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2013
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  3. Jungibaaz

    Jungibaaz Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    You think IAF will throw 100's of MKI/Migs in pakistani airspace at one time?
    At best there will be limited engagements.

    IAF and PAF may go head to head, but PAF's role will be mainly defensive.
    PAF's main forms of defence against IAF MKI/Migs will be F-16/52+ and AWACS.
    India enjoys numerical superiority in the air, however is most engagements even if you have 3 MKI intruders, in our airspace PAF can put as many to intercept if not more. And the existence of long range ground based radars and SAMs will ensure that IAF's role is limited to activities across the border region and limited engagements in the air.

    IN has a massive edge over PN, more ships, more subs, better ships, destroyers and AC.
    However, PN's role is simple... Their goal is to keep IN from gaining superiority anywhere and limited presence near our waters, in our waters, PN's role is Sea deniability/parity. The wide array of ASM's will add to that (C-802/3/K, Exocet, Harpoon, and now CM-400AKG).

    I reserve my comments, most of the fighting and significant wins will be on land.
     
  4. Jungibaaz

    Jungibaaz Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    We didn't raise talibs, war raised them.

    And they are Small amounts of PA regulars are active in NW operations. Most actions is done by FC.
    And while this is true, India is directly involved in instability in Balochistan.

    A lot of stupid things.
    be it 98, or be it now.

    As Indian generals have talked of having lunch in Lahore or knocking on the gates of Lahore within minutes.
    But we don't expect our generals to capitalise on those threats.

    War is only very temporary.
    And for IA, this is the best time to strike, where PA is focused in more than one area.
    That's the reason for the warmongering by IA generals.

    but still, in a war, your war will be unsuccessful and in a war where our armed forces employ strategies properly, you will be forced to keep your distance or sustain massive loss of life.

    That is why we haven't went to war.
     
  5. Guynextdoor

    Guynextdoor Lt. Colonel SENIOR MEMBER

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    Dude, we have more than 200 MKIs and you have what 50 F16s? They aren't even C/D versions we don't need MKIs. With Phalcons, and our MKIs we can roll over all of your force. We will most probably front foot Mig 29 and mirage for your AF with MKIs watching at a distance (or maybe send MKI to finish the job faster). In all circumstances, India will be very careful to try to avoid full fledged war- not because we can't finish it but because our economy is growing and even a small hint of trouble will hit exports and our economy.
     
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  6. Guynextdoor

    Guynextdoor Lt. Colonel SENIOR MEMBER

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    We didn't raise talibs, war raised them.

    You've fallen for the generals' lines. We too have done some nasty stuff- Mukti Bahini, involvement in SL. You will see the golden rule of such policy- we NEVER allow it to have a reverse impact on our society. We wra;ped up the '71 war in 8 days and in 6 months despached all trained bahnis into Bangladesh. It is their problem and we won't allow it to have a reverse impact here. In your case your generals raised and trained them for decades until it seeped into your own society.
     
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  7. Vritra

    Vritra Major ELITE MEMBER

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    Respectfully, throwing the brunt of their force at Pakistan is exactly what India will try to do. If the situation ever escalates to that level, the military's aim will be to overwhelm Pakistan and to minimise the resistance it will encounter. It is one of the reasons the IAF and IN are so intent on acquiring such large fleets of aircraft, because they know that any engagement with Pakistan upwards of a minor skirmish will result in a two-front war for India, and they want to be thoroughly prepared for it.

    Every venture into Pakistani air space will be conducted by Sukhois and Rafales (and T-50s, when they enter service). Mirages and Jaguars will be reserved for a strike roll, while LCAs and MiG-29s will largely be reserved for point-defence rolls. Further, PAF are upgrading their aircraft to Block 50/52 standard, which is a significantly advanced aircraft in itself. Just ask Israel :wink:

    If our carriers every become operation, only then will LCAs and MiG-29Ks engage the PAF. And writing that has made me realised just how delayed the integration of our carriers have been, and how depressing it is...
     
  8. Jungibaaz

    Jungibaaz Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    You underestimate PAF.
    PAF F-16's number at least 18 F-16/52+ and 40 AM/BM-MLU.
    PAF have more F-16's than the number stated above, I'm sure of it.

    Other then that, JF-17 second.third squadrons are almost ready, that and the fact that we have AWACS and SA defences.
    We don't underestimate, historically, it is always you folks who underestimate.

    India wont sacrifice economic growth for war.
    That is why they adopted cold start doctrine, why PA adopted RIPOST.
    India wont now sacrifice growth for a go-nowhere war, despite ample opportunity and countless threats and chest thumping.
     
  9. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    [MENTION=6586]Jungibaaz[/MENTION], Bro can you please elaborate any example in which we Indians have invaded any of our neighbours?
    You invaded independent J&K in 1947, you invaded Independent Balochistan in 1948/49. You unleaseshed unspokable atrocities on your own people in East Pakistan in 1971. You started the war in 1971 and Yahiya Khan had openly made a statement that in next 10 days he will be fighting a war with India on 25th Nov 1971. You had attacked India on 22nd Nov 1971 in Bagdogra wherein your Sabres were shot down by Indian Gnats. Than your tanks attacked our forward posts in Bengal on 25th Nov 1971 and we defeated them. It was than that your President made that stupid comment.
    FYI, Gen Ayub Khan who was your president in 1965 war was termed a coward by British for being too scared like a rat when bullets flew around. We have his PCRs with us till date and we can make them public even today.
     
  10. Jungibaaz

    Jungibaaz Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    That is the aim if Indian armed forces are aiming for full-blown war with use of all available power (from both sides).
    But I bet you wont happen.
     
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  11. Jungibaaz

    Jungibaaz Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Who else does India share real borders with? China? You not attacking China, shows some sort of peace and restraint?
    Ask Bengalis what they think of BSF.

    And times have changed, India is now also starting conflicts, Siachen is one example, in 98 more warmongering.
     
  12. Manmohan Yadav

    Manmohan Yadav Brigadier STAR MEMBER

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    PCRs ????

    can you tell us more about it ?
     
  13. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Bro, there is a growing rattle within India to finish off Pakistan once and for all. The reason is that by being defensive and not dismembering Pakistan our security budget has been rising steadily and now stands at nearlt 100k lakhs per year. If we have a quick short high intensity war with pre- emptive use of nukes, we will lose just about three years of growth but will be able to recover that money lost by reduced defence spending as Pak will no more be there.
    I hope you remember that nearly all Pakistanies call us Indians,"Baniyaas". Well they are correct. we put a value to our actions. Now trying to maintain peace with Pakistan is a losing biz and baniyaas don't like a losing biz.
     
  14. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Personal Confidential Reports. These are the reports generated by the CO or an Initiating officer (IO) and gets vetted by two different superiors of the rank above the IO for correctness. If they are found to be negative than a review is done which includes a personal interview with the reviewing Officer and Senior Reviewing Officer to tell the officer that he has been placed lower and found wanting in his duties and abilities as an officer. The officer on whom such reports are raised has to sign every such report and explainations rendered by him. They all become part of these PCRs. If an officer claims victimisation, that gets recorded and is given a new assignment under a new CO and his abilities are rejudged. Incase the reports by new CO are found at variance with that of old CO, the reports by old CO are deleted and reports by new CO are retained as record of an Officer's service and his abilities.
     
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  15. Guynextdoor

    Guynextdoor Lt. Colonel SENIOR MEMBER

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    PAF F-16's number at least 18 F-16/52+ and 40 AM/BM-MLU.
    PAF have more F-16's than the number stated above, I'm sure of it.


    Nowhere near enuf. Not when 200+ Su 30s are on the other side.
     
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