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Kashmir Conflict - Who is right, India or Pakistan?

Discussion in 'International Relations' started by kaku, Jul 24, 2011.

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  1. kaku

    kaku BANNED BANNED

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    One of the most intractable and long standing conflicts in the world is the conflict between India and Pakistan over Kashmir. This conflict started in 1947, on the day after India and Pakistan simultaneously became independent. Three major wars have been fought over this and thousands and perhaps even more than a million people have died. The result so far is that India controls almost two-thirds of Kashmir and Pakistan controls one-third. China controls the rest. The conflict continues.
    I and, I believe, most scholars who have studied this issue feel that Pakistan has the stronger case. However, India has more people and therefore more who advocate their point of view.

    I have never read a cogent, logical explanation from anybody taking the Indian side until I received a letter from somebody in India a few days ago. Therefore, I have decided to post my view and his view and ask readers to write me their opinions.

    Briefly stated, when British India was given its independence, India was supposed to be divided into two countries: India and Pakistan. All areas which were more than 70% Muslim were suppose to go into Pakistan. The rest would be India.

    However, the "princely states" would be left to decide on their own. They could join Pakistan or India or they could remain independent.

    The way I am directly concerned with this issue is that my wife was from the Princely State of Chitral, which is in the extreme Northwest corner of what is now Pakistan. The rulers of Chitral were for a time not sure if they wanted to join Pakistan or India. Eventually, they came to be considered part of Pakistan, but retained their autonomy. The princes continued to rule. However, on January 1, 1971, the rule by the Prince of Chitral was abolished by the Government of Pakistan. This was a popular move, as the long suffering people of Chitral had gotten fed up with their princes. The princes were not entirely unhappy either, because they were given some money and minor positions in the Government of Pakistan. The Prince of Chitral is still in the Foreign Service of Pakistan to this day. Older people in Chitral still say "I am going to Pakistan" when they are going there.

    Although the matter of Chitral was resolved peacefully, in neighboring Kashmir, there was immediate war.

    According to the Indians, Pathan troublemakers from the Northwest Frontier (places like Chitral and Peshawar) were causing riots and agitation in Kashmir. As a result, the Maharaja of Kashmir joined India and requested the assistance of the Indian Army. The Indian Army arrived immediately, the same day, and Pakistan attacked the next day.

    Thus, according to the Indians, India has the right to all of Kashmir. When Pakistan built a road to China known as the Karakorum Highway, India protested to the United Nations and everywhere else that a road was being built across "their territory" without their permission.

    However, Pakistan has a different view. The "Pathan agitators" were not from Peshawar. Rather, they were local Kashmiris who did not want to be part of India. Furthermore, the Maharaja of Kashmir had no right to call in the Indian Army, because the Maharaja of Kashmir was not a heredity ruler. He was merely a British appointee. There had been no such position as the "Maharaja of Kashmir" prior to British rule. Finally, the agreement was that any areas more than 70% Muslim would go to Pakistan. Kashmir has more than 90% Muslims and therefore clearly should have been part of Pakistan.

    The main reason why I and most others take the Pakistan side is that numerous polls have been taken of the people of Indian Kashmir. Every one of these polls has had a similar result. Some want an independent Kashmir. Some (usually slightly fewer) want to join Pakistan. Almost none at all want to stay in India. The few who do want to stay in India are recent arrivals, primarily Hindus, who do not have long heredity links to Kashmir.

    Nobody on the Pakistan side of Kashmir wants to join India, but a few would like to have independence.

    Such matters are often determined by economics. Pakistan has a much higher standard of living and the people are financially better off there than they are in India.

    Finally, I must add that the British were at fault for not resolving this issue before pulling out in 1947.

    Ismail Sloan
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2011
  2. xXX-Nair:::Saab-XXx

    xXX-Nair:::Saab-XXx Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    Ismail Sloan lol... no need to comment here...
     
  3. chachachoudhary

    chachachoudhary Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    @Kaku: Where is the link?
     
  4. Manmohan Yadav

    Manmohan Yadav Brigadier STAR MEMBER

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    Kashmir is a never ending debate, everyone claims to be right.
    Indians will claims theirs and Pakistanis will claim theirs.

    Its a mindless debate, an utter waste of time,
    i prefer the status quo,
    I am happy with it, let the borders remain as it is.
     
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  5. kaku

    kaku BANNED BANNED

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    Man, sorry- no link? I have this in doc form.
     
  6. Sanibhagwan

    Sanibhagwan 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Amputated pakistan (1971) still doesn't learn its lessons.

    People has to live first before talking about standard of living.

    • Topping the Failed state index.
    • On an average 10 people are dying in karachi alone.
    • Sectarian and ethnic violence remain unabated through out pakistan.
    • A Governer was killed for having a moderate view
    • A Minority affairs minister was killed for being a minority.
    • Shia muslims are culled like they aren't human beings.
    • Quadianis aren't considered as muslims.
    • A coup every decade.
    • IMF has to bail out pakistan every decade despite of US, UK and Saudi Aid.
    • Taliban taking over certain provinces.

    These are just a few things which i remember, strategic affairs experts will have a big failure list to show.
     
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  7. theeternallaw13

    theeternallaw13 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    doesn't matter now
     
  8. Naren1987

    Naren1987 Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    Is this why India's GDP per capita is a 1000 USD higher than Pakistan?
    Is that why India ranks higher on the HDI?
     
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  9. Devan Tangri

    Devan Tangri FULL MEMBER

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    I thought this was about Kashmir, not shit talking each other's countries.
     
  10. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    Because if this was your homestate you would be running and gunning everyone down that opposed it. Most of us have this "it is not affecting me so let the current chalta hai situation continue". Kashmir was always historically Indian with Kashmiri mainstream Hindu, Buddhist and Sikh civilizations living throughout the history before barbaric invaders of central Asia started their ideological colonization of the state.

    Many of my relatives' ancestors are from that state. And I am sure a lot of north Indians will also share their ancestry to the state as I have come to know during my life stay in Delhi.

    Ask the Kashmiri pandits about how they feel and should you still consider that status quo is better, then offer half of your state as well to Pakistan.

    Kashmir is an inseparable and undisputed part of India... only problem is our government is a sell-out and slave. That's all.

    Status quo..:fie:
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2011
  11. Rudrakx

    Rudrakx Lieutenant SENIOR MEMBER

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    When it comes to Kashmir, Pakistan behaves like it was Pakistan who gave away India ! even I heard they teach this in schools !!
     
  12. Mike

    Mike Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Who the heck is Ismail Sloan? Never heard of this fellow! [​IMG]

    And he's taken an extremely simplistic view of Kashmir that doesn't even warrant a discussion. Nuff said.

    Cheers!
     
  13. Mike

    Mike Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    You forgot the American doles to Pakistan since 1947. In the last 10 years alone they have received $ 20 Billion!!! And their GDP growth rate is just 2.2%. Ask any Kashmiri today and he'll balk at the prospect of joining Pakistan - a failing state.

    Cheers!
     
  14. GUNS-N- ROSES

    GUNS-N- ROSES Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    have we still not gone past right and wrong stage?

    for the sake pf piece lets talk abt wat solution can be realistically achieved. if both india and pakistan look at it objectively they will know converting LOC will be the best solution coupled with limited autonomy to kashmiris under frame work of indian constitution.
     
  15. Sanibhagwan

    Sanibhagwan 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    It sure is the best solution. International community too would appreciate this line of thinking. But, it has no takers across the border.

    Sometimes i get a feeling that pakistan wanted the kashmir issue simmering for a very long time to keep the country united.

    A deep anti-india feeling is what keeps pakistan united. You take it away, they will have a repeat of 1971. This time around the North west or South west part of pakistan will break away.

    Guys what could we name the new countries? :partay:

    North west - Pashtudesh

    South west - Balochdesh
     
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