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Kaveri Engine Program : News and Updates

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by BlueOval, Aug 9, 2010.

?

what type of engine should we have attempted as our first one??

Poll closed Jan 5, 2017.
  1. variable cycle engine

    15 vote(s)
    60.0%
  2. conventional engine

    10 vote(s)
    40.0%
  1. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    refer praikramas posts a few months back on rafale which you and vstol cheered
     
  2. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    From the earliest days i have said that Rafale deal is mostly negotiated by NSA A Doval bcz of the black technologies involved outside the realm of the public domain. What you may like or not does not matter.
    Rafale deal was never about 36. Not before and not now also. The deal always talked about a number greater than French total order of 286 + jets and what India will get for the same numbers.

    The N Sub tech transfer is a reality and you will see it one day when the real picture of SSN comes out. Even though the looks may look very much Russian but prominently the French influence and technology will be visible.

    The N ACC plan will slowly gain more steam bcz Indian doctrine of 3 complete CBG (not ACC) needs realization which further will be expanded to 5 CBGs over time. The Tech help wont come from other sides so whether we like or not DCNS is involved in it.

    BTW why dont you @Paliwal Warrior ask DRDO the reason behind submitting a report last year stating they cannot guarantee the working of indigenous AIP and its fitment into last batch of scorpenes. Why DM MP had to add the AIP among the tech needed to be transferred. and why DCNS requested for a 100% FDI in order to ensure it can get in and out without raising any eyebrows. My or your liking disliking means nothing,

    Do you even know that Project 885 was the one which India wanted to buy at $1.8 Bn per sub in 2013 and wanted a 6+6 complete package which was refused by Russian side. The akula 2 of present Indian Navy and 885 has a difference of day and night in terms of technology and acoustic noise. When this was clear that Russian did not want to share its crown jewels that was the beginning of India's desire for barracuda SSN tech.

    The tech for AMCA and LCA will be there. BTW HAL has completed the land acquisition for the HAL expansion line and started work. Even in last review our Great HAL folks could not guarantee anything beyond 16 jets a year. and Inspite of me being a staunch proponent of 300 LCA number and light category comprising of only LCA variants, its clear that HAL cannot meet such requirements by 2030 timeline.

    And for Su30 MKI also go and ask Russian why they are not ready to give newer version of Al31 engine family which we are negotiating hard. Why they want us to buy 80 Su35 jets along with Super sukhoi upgrade in order to give more new tech into Super 30 program.

    Even if you hate me or state/ criticise or say i am a paid agent - it means nothing to me. You are entitled to have a opinion based on your understanding and ideologies. And i based on mine. Rafale deal if it happens is good for our own country if it does not fine , find what next to develop and have for meeting our security threats. The work of NSA Doval has been very good in meeting the evolving threat matrix for our country.

    PS: I have earned enough in my life already. Not sure i need any pay for being a forum writer or proponent of Rafale bcz the forum Another forum, PDF and IDF does not have at any point of time any ability to influence the procurement decisions of our country. At best they can have ppl who can tell and reveal whats being written in black and white but no one here including me can influence decisions. And secondly, Dassault does nt hire media image representatives for any online image making. Or else they would have met you first to hire you and propagate a pro Rafale campaign.


    Now i will give you another shock, you know Russia is building N plants in India right. You are aware that these plants have many designs which are foreign. Are you aware in Dassault group there is a 3D Design company which specializes in such design work and does works for Russian Civil Nuclear Energy segment? Are you aware they are also part of the project of our N Plants by Russia. I am sure you did not. If only you would have known how many French companies work for India's economic needs...
     
  3. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Find it. What did I cheer?
     
  4. Tejpal

    Tejpal Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    What expertise has Doval got with regards to these technologies? As far as I am aware, he was a secret service agent and not an engineer or designer...he'd be the last person you want to negotiate these deals.
     
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  5. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Why do we need engine tech now that as per @randomradio kaveri is a. Success and we can design new engines ?
     
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  6. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    Kaveri is a success as per product definition of having a working model of the project envisioned. What Kaveri lacks is basically is its inability to meet project benchmark parameters which makes it impossible to use in Frontline fighters.

    In simple words, we could make a engine which. Can't be fitted to our indigenous aircrafts bcz we could not fully satisfy these aircrafts need. On the other hand, anything lower than those aircrafts requirements and we are in a position to go ahead and use it. That's why without the afterburner section engine under Ghatak project is going into our UCAVs.
     
  7. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    @PARIKARMA, Pls do not ever try an teach an idiot. You will be committing a sin. All AAPtards fall in that category of people.
     
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  8. TickTickIndian

    TickTickIndian BANNED BANNED

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    What do you think of a "fast" Battle Group for navy filled with air components only with good loitering capability aided by many refueling tankers. Our coastline and IOR is vast and the CBGs don't move fast.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2016
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  9. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Kaveri is a success, but it can't power any aircraft that we have right now. Its thrust is too low for that, even LCA needs 100KN. The French can help push the Kaveri to 115KN so it can power the AMCA.

    Kaveri will be used in IUSAV. They are building 20 engines for that.
     
  10. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    For that the naval doctrine has to evolve much further ahead. Appropriately budget allocation has to be done. The best way forward is a combination of 5 CBGs and 4 LPD/LHDs out of which 3 ACC is conventional and 2 ACC is N powered. LHDs holding dedicated NMRH helos with ASW capability will do wonders.

    The mutilpliers AARs as well as Fleet Support Replenishment Tanker numbers also needs increase.

    Surface
    ship detection is a stronger possibility but its undersea detection capability which needs a boost as well as NMRH /ASW assets to take care of this threat

    Also we need to see how we can equip MALE and HALE UAVs in ISR mode to have a continuous tracking of our IOR region. It would be beneficial if we take help of Japan and configure our own version of Sea Web underwater acoustic detection system like this
    upload_2016-7-31_18-35-40.png

    That will help us develop a more comprehensive startegy like below

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    in a separate news India is issued LOR for Predator B Guardian for ISR activities. So we will take care of loitering by UAVs but needs Helos as well as doctrine and mechanism for quicker response
     
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  11. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    If ennemy shot down the maritime patrol aircraft, all the system is down. Submarine will need the capability to shot down maritime patol aircraft.
     
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  12. positron

    positron Captain FULL MEMBER

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    We did trust them before for help, and it was not Free either, In all honesty, I do not trust the french to manage that, best is to put some logical time based limits, If not done within that then put the penalties, Engine development is not time based, but then we had taken French help because they had the experience,

    In my view, if GOI wants to take the French help on Kaveri they can, but then its better to also have say 100+ GE-F414 Engines on order so that the project is not held up because the engine is being developed, do not forget how the original Tejas was delayed because we were waiting for Kaveri engine. This way there is no pressure on HAL. They can use F-414 engine for Tejas 1A in the meantime that Kaveri is being developed. If the French try to play any mischief we are covered and time is not lost.

    French will try to delay the development of engine as much as they can because for them its counter productive, the more the nost of Kaveri produced, more the Tejas planes and those nos will hit any potential Rafale sales. Kaveri would also be used for AMCA thus, no cancelling of AMCA,., again potential Rafale nos hit.


     
  13. positron

    positron Captain FULL MEMBER

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    So what exctly were they doing when we paid Safran as consultants? Killing time is right answer.
    The french are offering this carrot only for getting their foot in the door for Rafale sales, It is in french interest to delay the engine development and push for more nos of Rafale.. be sure IAF will not be talking of Light/middle weight, when its about ordering Rafale.

     
  14. positron

    positron Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Does it fly yet? even as a prototype? So its a paper tiger yet?
     
  15. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    When did we pay Safran?
     

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