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Kaveri Engine Program : News and Updates

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by BlueOval, Aug 9, 2010.

?

what type of engine should we have attempted as our first one??

Poll closed Jan 5, 2017.
  1. variable cycle engine

    15 vote(s)
    60.0%
  2. conventional engine

    10 vote(s)
    40.0%
  1. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    Its not MPA alone which acts as a RX for all TX down there.

    Concept is further augmented like this
    upload_2016-7-31_20-16-17.png

    and a better understanding can be made from this illustration
    upload_2016-7-31_20-17-33.png

    You see we have got the MPA part, Dedicated MilSat part as well now needs the UW (Underwater) sink and UW Sensor setup

    The surface station over water actually helps collate Rx from all sensor cluster.

    By smartly clubbing such sensors we can even monitor Tsunami/Earthquake monitoring in the region

    It can be augmented further with buoys which can become focal point of Rx ..
     
  2. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    But then you need a very heavy infrastructure to cover a significant area, and this infrastructure is vunerable too. With a MPA you can deploy your system where it is needed, when it is needed.
     
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  3. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    With an MPA if it goes on regular patrols on a daily basis and if you detect a situation or daily use dunking sonars then there is a good chance of detecting it.

    Now for regular patrols over IOR how many MPA are required?
    What are the probable chances that MPA could not detect the subs?

    Consider the situation of India and Pakistan - Fleet is SSK.. They cant dive deeper than 300 m and normally operate more like 150-200m. Nice we got it using MPAs.

    Now consider India and China angle.. In comes the SSN and SSBN and depth changes to 300-400m. Sitting quietly at depth and using every means to evade detection.

    If you carefully consider the financials over multiple years the building of heavy infra actually will help. Why? An example is this
    Around the whole country, we can use the following infra in these places to have the Rx and in turn convert a major part of asset needed for deployment out of our books

    [​IMG]


    These are blocks which are awarded to exploration of Oil and Natural gas, implying Oil Rigs.

    Another is this
    [​IMG]
    The usage of buoys to act as Receivers.

    So instead of MPA we can get multiple RX stations done.

    Its basically the UW Sensor web which needs to be laid properly. A good way could be using the fibre optic laying operation to have some these UW senors especially if the cables are laid by Indian companies like Tata Communications

    Thus we can definitely find more cost effective means of detection which are more fool proof and provide a multiple layer of detection
     
    randomradio likes this.
  4. sunny6611

    sunny6611 Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    the core was the problem ?

    was it not the after burner ?
     
  5. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    There is a plan to create an undersea network for the Bay of Bengal. It will stretch from the Malacca Strait to the southern tip of India.
     
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  6. positron

    positron Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Perhaps you are confusing range with diving ability
    A nuclear powered submarine like SSN or SSBN have powerful engines, and hence can propel heavy loads, but that does not mean that Diesel powered submarines cannot dive as deep as Nuclear powered, it all depends on how the submarine is designed and the pressure the hull can withstand. The nuclear powered submarines can have very long range because the core will deplete after a very long time and hence the range of the patrol can be high, but for Diesel electric submarines, they have to be refueled in order to have long range. What depth they can dive can be attributed to the material and design of the submarine and not propulsion,

    Covering IOR, BoB and Western Indian sea (why do we call it Arabian sea??) we need to have double surveillance, both underwater and surface (includes aerial) this way we can ensure that nothing goes through without us knowing what exactly goes past our maritime region. This is most important for submarines which cannot be detected by Satellite but only by underwater or SONAR.


     
  7. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    The problem is with the entire engine. bcoz the pressure ratio is not correct, you don't have sufficient air flow available for rated afterburner thrust also. The core needs to be corrected, it will settle everything else. Its like a combination lock, one single number can hold up the whole thing.
     
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  8. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Odd isn't it, India paid the French to fix the Kaveri engine and it never happened, now the French are going to do it for free. (if India buys Rafales for 244 million each.)
     
  9. lca-fan

    lca-fan Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    R!CK and PARIKRAMA like this.
  10. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    This seems to be for HTFE-25 and they are going for SCB tech while the engine already has BLISK and wide chord fan blades. This means that HAL is probably increasing the thrust of this engine to nearly 40KN dry.
     
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  11. HariPrasad

    HariPrasad 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Even Arihant uses the metallurgy of hull of french submarine.
     
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  12. HariPrasad

    HariPrasad 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Saurav Jha had quoted that India has made SBC from new material and it is better than the blades of AL 31 used in MKI. Do you have any idea sir? Will this technology will go into Kaveri? Kaveri develops 52 KN Dry and some 75 KN wet thrust which will be increased to 90 KN atleast. Will there be any rise in dry thrust? because it is equally important for weight carrying and super cruise sort of things.
     
  13. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    This tech has been already integrated with Kaveri which has reduced its weight but the thrust enhancement achieved is not yet in public domain. The present Kaveri engine is lighter by about 100kgs at 1150kgs. Safran help will bring it down to about 1050-1100 depending on thrust levels likely to be achieved.
     
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  14. HariPrasad

    HariPrasad 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    This is great sir. DO you see any dry thrust increasing?
     
  15. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    I have repeatedly written here that I expect Kaveri to have same thrust levels as F414INS6.
     
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