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Kaveri Engine Program : News and Updates

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by BlueOval, Aug 9, 2010.

?

what type of engine should we have attempted as our first one??

Poll closed Jan 5, 2017.
  1. variable cycle engine

    15 vote(s)
    60.0%
  2. conventional engine

    10 vote(s)
    40.0%
  1. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Which again makes only sense if they offer the required thrust. You don't replace a 85kN engine with one around 81kN right? And with the known upgrades and weight additions of MK2, Kaveri needs far bigger push than just a fix of the K9 problems.
     
  2. Guynextdoor

    Guynextdoor Lt. Colonel SENIOR MEMBER

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    I said in 10 years we should fix these problems and get it ready. That's probably not off the mark no?
     
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  3. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Who knows with DRDO, but as said, in 10 years we need a better engine with better capabilities, than K9. That's why aiming on an engine, that ultimately can replace a foreign engine on AMCA, or even better the Russian engines on MKI / FGFA would be better for India, than desperately trying to get K9 into LCA.

    Just as NLCA is the base for Indian naval design know how, a fixed Kaveri engine can be the base for engine know how. In both cases however, we should build them in numbers only, if they offer operational advantages, not just for being indigenous.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2017
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  4. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Who knows with U.S, our relation again goes bad, and U.S refuses to supply engine and Eurojet follows same OR in 10 years, we need better engine, but U.S deprived us, and we are now again with the HF24 Marut Saga with underpower engine. And DRDO is not there, because we dumped all our effort, knowledge for Good long ago.

    Fix Kaveri engine -- What a funny quote again and again. We are still on the verge of learning to develop the technology to do certain test, and validate the result, and built a testing system, learning to manufacture high precision parts, metallurgical composition or depend on the foreign labs result, which are politically not barred.
     
  5. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    What is the flat rated thrust of F404in20 with 85 KN engine. @vstol jockey

    Remember, when India sucessfully tested surface to surface Ballastic Missile Prithvi-1, and almost at the same time, one Austalian Guy posted, the whole procedure, method to produce 150 KM range Ballastic Missile, with easily available industrial raw material, and items available in market in Public Domain, though removed from the internet quickly. What a funny achievement did DRDO achieved at that time Na.
     
  6. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    This engine is not flat rated. Its thrust is calculated for ISA conditions.
     
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  7. Schwifty

    Schwifty 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Off topic :
    Since this is also pertaining to a engine, posting it here.




     
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  8. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    https://theprint.in/2017/07/24/indi...averi-engine-for-upgraded-su-30-mki-fighters/
     
  9. Blackjay

    Blackjay Developers Guild IDF NewBie

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  10. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    I hope this news is correct. If this happens, we would have got 36 Rafale for free plus additional USD8B as further savings. The final cost of Rafale deal will be -USD8B. yes the sign is minus. I had written about this to last DM extensively and my writings to him were subsequently released to press also by his OSD.
     
  11. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Well the article is only based on unnamed sources and we have to keep in mind that this means using Kaveri / Snecma engine as the base for a new heavy class engine development, not just a thrust upgrade and therefor not useful for AMCA.

    But it's exactly what I said for the Mig 35 or more Mig 29K, Russia is the only country that might allow us to integrate own engines and that can be a game changer!
     
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  12. sunny6611

    sunny6611 Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Specifications (AL-31F)[edit]
    Data from [22]

    General characteristics
    • Type: Two-shaft afterburning turbofan
    • Length: 4,990 millimetres (196 in)
    • Diameter: 905 millimetres (35.6 in) inlet; 1,280 millimetres (50 in) maximum external
    • Dry weight: 1,570 kilograms (3,460 lb)[23]
    Components
    • Compressor: 4 fan and 9 compressor stages
    • Combustors: annular
    • Turbine: 2 single-staged turbines
    Performance
    Dry thrust: 24.6 g/(kN·s)
    Full afterburner: 54.3 g/(kN·s)



    Specification (GTX-35VS Kaveri)[edit]
    General characteristics
    • Type: afterburning turbofan
    • Length: 3,490.0 mm (137.4 in)
    • Diameter: 909.3 mm (35.8 in)
    • Dry weight: 1,236 kg (2,724 lb) [Goal: 953–1,111 kg (2,100–2,450 lb)]
    Components
    • Compressor: two-spool, with low-pressure (LP) and high-pressure (HP) axial compressors:
      • LP compressor with 3 fan stages and transonic blading
      • HP compressor with 6 stages, including variable inlet guide vanes and first two stators
    • Combustors: annular, with dump diffuser and air-blast fuel atomisers
    • Turbine: 1 LP stage and 1 HP stage
    Performance
    • Maximum thrust:
    • Military thrust (throttled): 52 kN (11,687 lbf)
    • Full afterburner: 81 kN (18,210 lbf) (planned to be refined to >95 kN)
    • Specific fuel consumption:
    • Military thrust (throttled): 0.78 lb/(lbf•h) (79.52 kg/(kN·h))
    • Full afterburner: 2.03 lb/(lbf•h) (207.00 kg/(kN·h))
    • Thrust-to-weight ratio: 7.8:1 (76.0 N/kg)
    Engine cycle[edit]
    • Airflow: 78 kg (172 lb) per second
    • Bypass ratio: 0.16:1 (it should be increased to 0.5:1)
    • Overall pressure ratio: 21.5:1 [Goal: 27:1]
    • LP compressor pressure ratio: 3.4:1 [Goal: 4:1]
    • HP compressor pressure ratio: 6.4:1
    • Turbine entry temperature: 2,218–2,601 °F (1,214–1,427 °C; 1,488–1,700 K) [Goal: 3,357 °F (1,847 °C; 2,120 K)]



    they're interchangeable ????
     
  13. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Russians will demand an order for Mig-35s and will agree for the same engine for Mig-35 and SU-30MKI for that. Remember the best friend of Russia in Europe is France where everything is available for sale provided you give the price they ask for.
     
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  14. Grevion

    Grevion Professional Think Troll IDF NewBie

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    PARIKRAMA and Blackjay like this.
  15. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    As I said, you can't use the same engine in a Mig as well as a Flanker, so Kaveri / Snecma can only be the technological Base for a heavy class engine, which would be a separate development.
     
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