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LCA Tejas Multirole Aircraft

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Dark_Prince, Apr 14, 2010.

  1. Kane0610

    Kane0610 FULL MEMBER

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    SU 30MKI uses ELTA 8222 EW system.

    Back in early Jan 2015, there were reports of EW system developed by DRDO tested on Tejas PV-1. I think it was Mayavi. However, if we look at the flight news on ADA website, PV-1 has just seen three flight tests since 2015 Jan. After which it was never flown till date. It might be a case where the tests resulted in the system going back to the drawing board.

    http://www.airforce-technology.com/...ves-advanced-electronic-warfare-suite-4486639
     
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  2. rockstar

    rockstar 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Elta 8222 is a jamming pod set, not complete SW system.
     
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  3. Lion of Rajputana

    Lion of Rajputana Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    I thought that the Mk2 wouldn't be made after they just settled on the Mk1A for the Air Force, so is the IAF going to ever order Mk2's or are they for export and tech development only?
     
  4. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    It's for tech development only.
     
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  5. Pundrick

    Pundrick 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Tejas inches closer to FOC; crucial trials coming up

    Bengaluru: The Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas programme is heading towards the Final Operational Clearance (FOC) phase scheduled to be achieved by June this year. According to sources involved with the project, Derby missile will be fired in a guided mode during the first quarter of the year, clearing a key FOC parameter.

    “In the air-to-air role, we have already fired the R-73 and it is the turn of Derby in guided mode now. In the air-to-ground phase, different types of bombs have already been dropped and tested. There are some software updates needed to fine-tune the accuracy of these missions,” an official told Mathrubhumi on Wednesday.

    Interestingly, it was on January 4, 2001 LCA had its first flight with Wg Cdr Rajiv Kothiyal piloting the Technology Demonstrator-1. In the last 16 years, different platforms from the test flightline have completed around 3300 flights.

    “If you add up the Squadron flights, the numbers will be more,” says the official. The Indian Air Force (IAF) now operates three Tejas fighters from Bengaluru.

    No major hiccups in the programme

    The official said that there are no major hiccups with programmes and the FOC deadlines will now be met.

    “Software upgradation might happen even after FOC. We have already integrated the air-to-air-refuelling-probe on LSP-8 and it will soon undertake trials. Flight envelope checks are being done to see any variations in the aerodynamics performance,” says the official.

    He said the engineers wanted to ensure that there is absolutely no influence on the air data parameters, post integration of the refuelling probe.

    “First dry runs will be executed followed by wet fuel transfer. It is a complex mission,” adds the official.

    The Russian gun (Gsh-23) has already been integrated on LSP-7 for the ground butt firing trials at Nasik. This will be followed by flight trials in the second quarter of the year.

    The envelope expansion (8G) has already been achieved at the Bahrain International Air Show last year. The Angle of Attack (AoA) of 26 degrees has also been achieved, with the actual requirement being 24 degrees.

    Tejas flypast at R-Day?

    A fly-past by three-Tejas formation is likely this time during the R-Day Parade in Delhi.

    According to sources, the IAF is mulling over the idea of moving away from convention of not flying single-engine fighters during R-Day Parade over Rajpath.

    “Single-engine fighters did fly over Rajpath during R-Day parade many decades ago, including the Sea Harriers. This time there’s a thought process to fly the Tejas. A total of five Tejas platforms are being readied, including two from the flight test line as a stand-by. A final confirmation has to come from Air HQ,” says an official with DRDO.

    During the upcoming 11th Aero India from February 14 in Bengaluru, Tejas will make its debut in Squadron colours. HAL is making all efforts to add one more fighter (SP-4) to the Squadron at the earliest.


    http://english.mathrubhumi.com/news...ming-up-final-operational-clearance-1.1629819
     
  6. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    December 9, 2016: In early December 2016 there were two more disappointing announcements for India’s locally designed and built LCA (Light Combat Aircraft or "Tejas") jet fighter. First, the navy officially ruled that the LCA was unsuitable for use on Indian aircraft carriers. The navy mentioned the LCA being overweight and, well, simply not suitable. With some encouragement from the government the navy later said it would order 46 of the LCA Mk2 (due in 2025) if the empty weight can be reduced 15 percent (from 6.6 tons to 5.6 tons). Currently the max weight is 13.5 tons and armament is one twin barrel 23mm autocannon and up to 3.5 tons of missiles and bombs. Internal fuel is 2.5 tons and that can be increased by at least 40 percent via drop tanks. Many in the navy don’t believe LCA will survive until 2025.

    That is better understood in light of the second bit of bad news. LCA has still not received its FOC (Final Operational Clearance), LCA received its IOC (Initial Operational Certificate) in 2013 and an FOC should have quickly followed. Despite repeated delays in receiving the FOC the government insists FOC will come through by the end of 2016 or early 2017 at the very latest. That has since been extended to the end of 2017. With the LCA anything is possible as long as it’s bad. For example, earlier in 2016 the government insisted on delivering the first two LCA fighters to the air force MiG-21 squadron that desperately needs new aircraft but doesn’t want the LCA. At the end of 2016 the Ministry of Defense ordered 83 more LCAs the air force really does not want.

    What is going on here? For the Indian procurement bureaucracy it is business as usual. That is happening despite a growing number of reasons the Indian Air Force and Navy are openly pleading with the government not to force them to accept and operate the LCA. Air force commanders point out that the LCA development has been a long list of failures. Moreover the current LCA design is very expensive to maintain and performs poorly in the air.

    There are ample reasons for military pilots to fear the LCA. In late 2013 the LCA finally, after many delays, was issued an IOC. This allowed LCA to be flown by military pilots, not just certified test pilots. The next goal was to upgrade LCA a bit so that it could earn an FOC. That would confirm that the aircraft was combat ready and that all its systems (electronics, fire control, weapons handling and so on) were operating to the satisfaction of the air force or foreign customers. In late 2013 it was announced that the LCA should earn an FOC by the end of 2014. But to move things along in the meantime the first LCA squadron (20 aircraft) was ordered built to IOC standards with plans to upgrade to FOC standards later if needed. This first LCA squadron was to be based in the southern tip of India (near Sri Lanka) and far from any likelihood of combat. It will be years, if ever, before India is confident enough in LCA to station any of them on the Pakistani or Chinese border.

    In 2012 the government admitted an inability to get the LCA into mass production and quietly delayed that goal for at least two more years. Production was originally to begin at the end of 2012 but the number of technical problems with the LCA was too great to clear up in time for production to start on schedule. Many essential electronic items were not functioning properly or reliably. The prototypes were maintenance nightmares and after each test flight it took several days to get the aircraft in shape to fly again. The managers of this government financed project tried to keep the problems quiet while problems were quietly fixed. That did not works. The failures continue because the plan to earn the FOC in 2015 was missed for the usual reasons (equipment failures and poor performance). In 2015 the government said the FOC would be achieved in 2016 but no one was certain about that, or anything else having to do the LCA.

    This IOC/FOC mess was not the first major failure for the LCA. In early 2013 India admitted defeat and dropped plans to use the locally developed Kaveri engine in the LCA. After 24 years and over $600 million the Kaveri was unable to achieve the necessary performance or reliability goals. The government plans to try and adapt the Kaveri for use in a combat UAV that is being developed locally but that aircraft is not expected to fly until the end of the decade.

    The LCA developers saw this Kaveri disaster coming in 2012 and several years earlier ordered 99 American F414 jet engines for $8.1 million each. These were to be used for the first LCAs being mass produced. At that point it was still believed that eventually most of the LCAs were to be powered by the Kaveri engine. The F414s were to substitute only until the Kaveri was ready but now are a long-term solution.

    The failure of the Kaveri project is just one of many examples of how the Indian defense procurement bureaucracy misfires. Efforts to fix the Kaveri mess even led to calling in foreign experts (from the U.S., Israel, and other Western nations). For example, in 2010 India made arrangements with French engine manufacturer Snecma to provide technical assistance for the Kaveri design and manufacturing problems. Critics in the Indian air force asserted that help from Snecma would not save the ill-fated Kaveri program. But the government apparently believed that it was necessary for India to acquire the ability to design and build world class jet engines, whatever the cost. Only a few nations can do this and India wants to be one of them, soon, no matter what obstacles are encountered. Despite decades of effort, the Kaveri never quite made it to mass production. Now the government will continue funding development of jet engine design and manufacturing capability, but with some unspecified changes.

    There is much to be learned from all these development disasters. When work began on the Kaveri, in the mid-1980s, it was believed that the LCA would be ready for flight testing by 1990. A long list of technical delays put off that first flight until 2001. Corners had to be cut to make this happen.

    For all this, by 2012 India only planned to buy 200-300 LCAs, mainly to replace its aging MiG-21s, plus more if the navy finds the LCA works on carriers (or can be forced to pretend it does). Now those plans have been cut because of growing resistance from military pilots. Export prospects are dim, given all the competition out there (especially for cheap, second-hand F-16s). The delays have led the air force to look around for a hundred or so new aircraft (or even used F-16s) to fill the gap between elderly MiG-21s falling apart and the arrival of the new LCAs. There is no end in sight for this tragicomic farce.
     
  7. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Seem to me that it is the same story as for the F-35: I tried to replace LCA by F-35 to see if it fit well, there is some time error but not so much and it fits relatively well!

    December 9, 2016: In early December 2016 there were two more disappointing announcements for India’s locally designed and built F-35 jet fighter. First, the navy officially ruled that the F-35 was unsuitable for use on aircraft carriers. The navy mentioned the F-35 being overweight and, well, simply not suitable. With some encouragement from the government the navy later said it would order 46 of the F-35 Mk2 (due in 2025) if the empty weight can be reduced 15 percent. Many in the navy don’t believe F-35 will survive until 2025.

    That is better understood in light of the second bit of bad news. F-35 has still not received its FOC (Final Operational Clearance), F-35 received its IOC (Initial Operational Certificate) in 2013 and an FOC should have quickly followed. Despite repeated delays in receiving the FOC the government insists FOC will come through by the end of 2016 or early 2017 at the very latest. That has since been extended to the end of 2017. With the F-35 anything is possible as long as it’s bad. For example, earlier in 2016 the government insisted on delivering the first two F-35 fighters to the air force .


    What is going on here? For the procurement bureaucracy it is business as usual. That is happening despite a growing number of reasons the Air Force and Navy are openly pleading with the government not to force them to accept and operate the F-35. Air force commanders point out that the F-35 development has been a long list of failures. Moreover the current F-35 design is very expensive to maintain and performs poorly in the air.

    There are ample reasons for military pilots to fear the F-35. In late 2013 the F-35 finally, after many delays, was issued an IOC. This allowed F-35 to be flown by military pilots, not just certified test pilots. The next goal was to upgrade F-35 a bit so that it could earn an FOC. That would confirm that the aircraft was combat ready and that all its systems (electronics, fire control, weapons handling and so on) were operating to the satisfaction of the air force or foreign customers. In late 2013 it was announced that the F-35 should earn an FOC by the end of 2014. But to move things along in the meantime the first F-35 squadron (20 aircraft) was ordered built to IOC standards with plans to upgrade to FOC standards later if needed. This first F-35 squadron was to be based in the southern and far from any likelihood of combat. It will be years, if ever, before air force is confident enough in F-35 to station any of them on the Pakistani or Chinese border.

    In 2012 the government admitted an inability to get the F-35 into mass production and quietly delayed that goal for at least two more years. Production was originally to begin at the end of 2012 but the number of technical problems with the F-35 was too great to clear up in time for production to start on schedule. Many essential electronic items were not functioning properly or reliably. The prototypes were maintenance nightmares and after each test flight it took several days to get the aircraft in shape to fly again. The managers of this government financed project tried to keep the problems quiet while problems were quietly fixed. That did not works. The failures continue because the plan to earn the FOC in 2015 was missed for the usual reasons (equipment failures and poor performance). In 2015 the government said the FOC would be achieved in 2016 but no one was certain about that, or anything else having to do the F-35.

    This IOC/FOC mess was not the first major failure for the F-35. For all this, by 2012 India only planned to buy 200-300 F-35s, mainly to replace its aging MiG-21s, plus more if the navy finds the F-35 works on carriers (or can be forced to pretend it does). Now those plans have been cut because of growing resistance from military pilots. Export prospects are dim, given all the competition out there (especially for cheap, second-hand F-16s). The delays have led the air force to look around for a hundred or so new aircraft (or even used F-16s) to fill the gap between elderly MiG-21s falling apart and the arrival of the new F-35s. There is no end in sight for this tragicomic farce.
     
  8. Ezco

    Ezco Captain FULL MEMBER

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    It fits very well to the F 35, but India has a justification, they are learning. For USA nobody really has an explanation about the ongoing circus.
     
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  9. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    HAL tender for Hush House for LCA division
     
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  10. zebra7

    zebra7 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Why not, even in its current form, the LCA could fly with the kaveri engine, obviously suboptimally. Kaveri K9+ derivative could power the LCA Lift version, as they won't be needed any wet or military thrust.
     
  11. zebra7

    zebra7 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    AMCA is totally ADA's conceptional plan and project, and it is away from the reality by long stretch of any imagination till IAF or IN issue any ASQR requirement.

    My personal opinion is

    1. LCA MK-1 40
    2. LCA MK-1A 83
    3. Combat Hawk - 80
    4. Jaguar DARIN-3 - 70
    5. Rafale - 90


    Jaguar DARIN 3 can serve the country till 2035.
     
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  12. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Riding on the success of Hawk production, HAL has even now replicated the same philosophies for the Tejas production line.

    “Some of the best production lessons from the Hawk line is already been adopted at the new LCA Division. The jigs, the structural and assembly lines have drawn inspiration from the Hawk model,” says a DGM with HAL’s Tejas Division.

    http://www.defense-aerospace.com/ar...-marks-100,-000-flight-hours-on-hawk-ajt.html
     
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  13. Sathya

    Sathya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    HE told that long back.. Probably more than a year..
     
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  14. Schwifty

    Schwifty 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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  15. Schwifty

    Schwifty 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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