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LCA Tejas Multirole Aircraft

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Dark_Prince, Apr 14, 2010.

  1. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    One thing I am dying to see on the LCA that will greatly enhance its performance is multiple ejector racks, alowing for the ability to greatly make up for less hardpoints and to allow for the LCA's full payload capacity to be optimally utilised.
     
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  2. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    Either way it is a typical test related issue that can/will be resolved shortly especially with OEM support (which is mentioned). Another storm in the tea cup from the Indian media.
     
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  3. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    IDRW is the worst source for information. No ethics what so ever.
     
  4. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    The epitome of "clickbait".
     
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  5. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    I went thru ADA annual report in detail and what I realised is that they have been completely fooled by their so called Airbus consultants. The people whom they are trusting are the people who are ensuring that India buys more Rafale. Let any one of you read that report in detail and tell me if they can come across any other finding.
     
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  6. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    The main purpose will be carrying the EW pod to not lose another station, rather than adding one. Also if the weight limit of the external station is not increased, 2 x WVR missiles might be the max, if at all. But will it be useful to add the weight and drag?

    [​IMG]

    Vs

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    Well you have highlighted one of key benefits to MERs, especially in the context of the MK.1A where an external SPJ will be used.

    That said, I was more interested in MERs for A2G munitions, especially SDBs. MERs could turn the LCA into a real "bomb truck" with CAS in mind, as it stands the LCA has a very conventional A2G load out but given its limited hardpoints has very limited employment scope.


    The Spice 250 and DRDO's SAAW on the LCA can/will be a real game changer.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    This can give the LCA the ability to hit 16 targets with the same payload as 4 PGMs without MERs.


    [​IMG]


    + still, no IAF/IN fighter has been fitted with MERs, the users simply aren't optimising what they have nor planning in the right direction. The IAF/IN fighter pilots are too focused on A2A warfare and their lack of actual combat experience is telling in many of the decsions (or lack thereof) they make.
     
  8. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    I am also looking foward for the addition of that, but it surely won't be a bomb truck, since more than 1 rack on the centerline might not be possible. But adding that to Rafale and MKI will be more important for SEAD and deep strikes.
    What also will be interesting for LCA is, if it can carry twin pylons for 250KG LGBs on the mid wing or even centerline station like the Mirage 2000.
    And last but not least, a triple pylon for an air launched Helina
     
  9. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Basic mission profiles for LCA:
    [​IMG]
     
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  10. Abingdonboy

    Abingdonboy Major Technical Analyst

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    What makes you think it could only be carried on the centreline? If the LCA can carry 2 800 litre drop tanks on its wings, it can carry 4x250lb SDBs on one pylon.

    As an aside, yes it is only marketing but Rafael (that has close ties to LCA project) thinks it is possible (for MK.1A I guess):

    [​IMG]


    Indeed and the Rafale will actually be the first fighter in Indian service with MERs, hopefulyl this will trickle down to other platforms too.

    Now you're dreaming!

    Yeah, a Brimstone type applicaiton should be in the Helina's future down the line but that's some time away and AFAIK neither the IAF nor IN has shown much interest in such a munition for their fighters as of yet.
     
  11. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    As soon as you add more weight, you will need more fuel tanks, which leaves the mid wing stations and those racks are more than 4m long, needs to be seen if size restictions would play a role. But most of all, the centerline would be the most logical choice! Lower drag, it frees stations for BVR missiles and any mission that requires to carry more than 4 bombs, would most likely not be flown by LCA.
    The more weapons we can add to the centerline the better!

    - 4 x SPICE 250
    - 1 x SPICE 1000 / 1000lb LGB
    - 1 x Kh 35 / Harpoon

    More than enough for such a light fighter to be multi role capable and all that equals the load of Mirage 2000.

    Well it better gets them, but in those low numbers and at 2 bases only, the operational use is more than limited. MKI would then be the better choice, with possibly 4 x quad racks.

    Yes my friend, I have a dream, that one day I will say, DRDO did a great job! :biggthumpup:
    =>

    http://indiandefence.com/threads/rafale-deal-signed.56201/page-222#post-551649
     
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  12. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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  13. proud_indian

    proud_indian FULL MEMBER

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    Foreign expertise key to fire up India's jets

    Saurav Jha, Apr 19 2017, 23:45 IST
    Snecma's help must be taken to create a Kaveri-derived engine that's Tejas-compatible in the 90 KN category.

    While India has managed to create a fourth-generation jet fighter, it is yet to perfect a low-bypass turbofan (LBTF) engine that can power an aircraft of this class. Indeed, without mastering contemporary jet engine technology, India’s objective of becoming a true aerospace power will remain unfulfilled.

    As such, after years of domestic effort by the Defence Research and Development Organisation’s (DRDO) Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) to develop the Kaveri LBTF engine on its own, India is now turning towards foreign handholding to modify the existing design in order to make it flightworthy.

    While the current collaborative effort is limited in scope, a much bigger programme is needed to bring India up to speed in jet engine technology. It must be noted that China is investing very heavily in this domain and will likely steal a march over India if the latter does not do the same.

    After some Rs 2,133 crores in expenditure and a couple of decades of development, GTRE’s Kaveri has not yet met its design goals in their entirety. As opposed to a targeted wet thrust level of 81 kilo newtons (KN), the current standard of preparation (SoP) prototypes manage 7-8% less than that figure.

    SoP prototypes have achieved dry thrust goals though having demonstrated about 52 KN without afterburner. However, current Kaveri SoP prototypes are not flight capable given their tendency to stall in certain regimes, besides other reliability issues. It has been clear for a while now that foreign expertise is needed to modify the existing SoP level design to make it flightworthy.

    This is precisely why the DRDO has engaged France’s Safran Aircraft Engines (Snecma) to perform a design audit on the Kaveri. At the moment, Snecma is preparing a detailed report outlining the design changes needed to create flightworthy Kaveri prototypes.

    Once Snecma’s report is ready, GTRE expects to get the go-ahead for the next phase of work that will involve modifying existing SoP prototypes and testing them, with a view to creating new prototypes that can be integrated with an actual flight capable airframe. Snecma will also be a consultant for aircraft integration activities.

    As it turns out, GTRE is yet to access some Rs 500 crore in funds that were approved years ago by New Delhi for aircraft integration work as part of the overall outlay for the Kaveri programme. Now that GTRE is looking to actually fly a Tejas test vehicle using a Kaveri engine, it is likely to write to the Centre to disburse this sum.

    It seems GTRE will first incorporate Snecma’s recommended design changes onto three existing SoP Kaveri prototypes called K6, K8 and K9. These will be tested both on GTRE’s testbed and on a flying testbed at the Gromov Flight Research Institute in Russia.

    After which, a few refined prototypes will be built that are likely to meet the Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification’s (CEMILAC) reliability standards and receive certification for a limited number of flights on board a Tejas class aircraft.

    One of these engines post-CEMILAC clearance will be integrated with a Tejas prototype and some 30-40 sorties will be conducted to demonstrate India’s ability to build a LBTF in the 70-80 KN class. GTRE expects to accomplish all this by Aero India 2019.

    Greater thrust needed

    However, an engine with this level of thrust is inadequate to power even current combat capable Tejas variants, not to mention future ones. Indeed, the Tejas MK-2 design, given its much greater maximum take-off weight will need a jet engine in the 90 KN wet thrust class.

    It is felt that the work done on the Kaveri programme should be taken forward by enlisting Snecma’s help to create a Kaveri-derived engine in the 90 KN category that would be compatible with the Tejas. To be compatible with the Tejas, this engine would have to retain the dimensions of the existing Kaveri design with compressor and turbine sizes remaining unchanged.

    So, the chief way in which a similar sized derivative can be uprated to 90 KN would be by having an engine core that can withstand much higher turbine entry temperatures. This, in turn, would require the core to be made up of different materials, such as next generation titanium alloys, from what make up the current Kaveri engine core called Kabini.

    This undertaking will not prove cheap though. Dr K Tamilmani, former Director General of DRDO’s Aeronautics cluster, estimates that this effort may cost Rs 10,000 crores and take a decade to complete if work began now.

    However, given that India is likely to import engines worth several multiples of that figure in the next 15 years or so, the expense could well be worth it, since the expertise gained could allow India to indigenise several classes of jet engines, besides delivering an indigenous LBTF for the Indian Air Force’s Tejas fleet.

    Incidentally, the Chinese have already understood the critical importance of being able to design and build modern jet engines and have apparently engaged thousands of technical personnel in a multi-billion dollar effort to achieve the same.

    http://www.deccanherald.com/content/607212/foreign-expertise-key-fire-up.html
     
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  14. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major Technical Analyst

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    SPICE is too costly for general Precision strike missions.Its EO mode isn't required for all missions and this one thing is causing the price to rise greatly.

    We need to develop our own reliable Laser guided and GPS/INS guided kits for125, 250, 500 and 1000kg bombs.

    Our Sudarshan Laser guided kit is an utter failure. In comparison the GBU16 has a much better CEP.

    We need to allow private companies in this sector. And aim to have atleast 75% of our A2G bombs converted to Guided Bombs.
     
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  15. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
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