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LCA Tejas Multirole Aircraft

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Dark_Prince, Apr 14, 2010.

  1. proud_indian

    proud_indian 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    In addition to that TASL are also making aerostructures for Pilatus PC-12 and RUAG D)-228.
     
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  2. ranadd

    ranadd 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Still screw driver tech is what Tata, Mahindra and DRAL has now. What they do in future is just speculation and anyone’s guess.

    As of today L&T is miles ahead of them. Even though it’s meagre, L&T spends more money on Processs & R&D. Look at the yearly spending by HE, ECC & Shipbuilding.

    Only Tata can match them somehow. Then again, if they include their excellent academia divisions. But they don’t. Their screw driver divisions work as per their client processes. Cannot blame them for that though. Part of the contract.

    My information is first hand. Not speculation.
     
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  3. Blackjay

    Blackjay Developers Guild Developers -IT and R&D

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    A vertical climb to glory: Tejas enthralls at Air Force Day
    By IANS | Updated: Oct 08, 2017, 05.29 PM IST

    Tejas on Sunday left spectators spellbound as it flew over the Hindon airbase at a function to mark the 85thAir Force Day.

    Poor visibility failed to play spoilsport for the indigenous fighter, the most recent one to join the Indian Air Force, as it took off right in front of the area where the parade was held, with a vertical climb followed by a loop.

    The fighter jet was being flown by Group Captain Madhav Rangachari, an ace pilot of the IAF who has been involved with the LCA since its test flights.


    The 'Vertical Charlie' was meant to be a salute to the Air Force Chief, and the steep climb displays the aircraft's ability to to quickly climb to heights to combat enemy fighters.

    From the vertical climb, the Tejas took a loop along the runway, followed by a 'maximum rate turn', a manoeuvre that demonstrates the aircraft's ability to change direction in the shortest possible time. It is an important ability for a fighter jet in air-to-air combat, to chase or escape the enemy fighter.


    The next was an 'outside turn', a display of the ability of the aircraft's fuel system and its ability to handle prolonged negative G flight. Negative G is the acceleration when an object is falling towards ground, or going downward.

    The aircraft then took a 'minimum radius turn', an important manoeuvre to gain advantageous position against the enemy aircraft in combat situation. The fighter also showcased its slow flying capability at mere 125 knots speed, with a high angle of attack, which indicated the engine's strength.


    The final manoeuvre for the day from the indigenous fighter jet was a series of rapid rolls, leaving the spectators enthralled.

    The IAF is buying 40 Tejas LCAs - 20 with Initial Operational Clearance and 20 with Final Operational Clearance. In addition, 83 more LCAs are to be bought, and this will make up for the requirement of single engine aircraft.

    The colourful flypast also saw a Surya Kiran Aerobatic team flying in different formations, though they did not carry out vertical manoeuvres due to poor visibility.

    The Surya Kiran team, which flies on Hawk jets, dedicated their display to Marshal of Air Force Arjan Singh, who passed away on September 16.

    The first formation by the team represented the Tejas, dedicated to those who created the world class fighter in India.

    The other formations included Sukhoi, Rafale, Hunter and to everyone's surprise in formation of a Gripen aircraft. Saab's Gripen is one of the fighters in competition as India is set to choose a single engine fighter jet to be made under the strategic partnership model.

    Air Force Chief Air Chief Marshal B.S. Dhanoa however clarified that the display had nothing to do with the decision that was still to be taken.

    Asked if it was an indication that India would be selecting the Gripen fighter jet, the Air Force Chief said: "It has got nothing to do with that. It was just a shape with a canard in front. It can be any fighter, they just called it Gripen. It has nothing to do with Gripen."

    More colours to the display were added by the Sarang team, with their indigenous Dhruv helicopters painted with Peacock feathers.

    The other aircraft that flew in the flypast included vintage Tiger Moth and Harvard aircraft, transport aircraft C-130, C-17, Embraer aircraft with AWACS, fighter jets Sukhoi-30, Jaguar and Mirage 2000.

    Link-
    http://m.economictimes.com/news/def...lls-at-air-force-day/articleshow/60994074.cms
     
  4. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    That is all it shall do :(
     
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  5. surya kiran

    surya kiran 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    MoD should have let L&T setup the private line for Tejas.
     
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  6. ranadd

    ranadd 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    This was 4 or 5 years ago, when certain armed forces did not reject it and there was a huge prospect of it getting sizeable orders.

    Positive outlook is necessary for private companies to invest.

    Government funding was necessary and since the Indian government has limited funds... we now know how things worked out.

    That would have been a game changer. Rumour has it that government secretaries scuttled the initiative. Not verified so take it as a lie. But knowing the kind, maybe not too far from truth.
     
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  7. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Which doesn't change anything, because it's not the production that is the issue, but even after decades, it's still the development side that is the problem!

    If MK1 would be technically useful, IAF would had ordered more => therefore the production line could had been extended till an MK2 would be developed. But the MK1 is not up to it's own development goals, let alone to current technological standard, so if we had an L&T line now too, we would not build a single more fighter and still had to pay for L&Ts costs.

    Tejas needs to improve itself to operationally useful levels, only then you can get the customer (IAF or export once), to place orders that justifies higher production rates, or a 2nd line.
    That's why HAL's production rate increase is not important, all that counts is, that the MK1A upgrade will be available in time and to the required technical levels. Any distraction for non rational reasons, will risk delays and therefore risk the overall success of the Tejas project and future orders!
     
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  8. surya kiran

    surya kiran 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    So, if MK1A rolls out on time, then will the F-16 still come in? What I am trying to understand is what is a replacement fighter for the Mig 21 expected to do? And what is the technical requirements for it to be ordered in numbers, instead of the F-16.
     
  9. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Of course it still will come, because both serve different requirements. There is no Tejas version developed or planned so far, that will be able to offer medium class capabilities!

    It can't carry similar loads, doesn't even have a similar nose diameter to implement a similar size radar, we even have trouble to find enough space to fit a modern EW into it, let alone IRST, or enough fuel for long endurance operations.

    The operational worth of a fighter is not based on the fighter it replaces, but on the opponents it is likely to face in war times and the current technological standard!
    Yes an LCA MK1 is in most fields superior to a Mig 21, but it isn't compared to F16, let alone J10 or even Flanker sized fighters. Just as a Mig 29K is superior to a Sea Harrier, but not to J15, F18SH, or Rafale M.
     
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  10. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    That calculation is valid if A type is been replaced with the B type of the specific role. But the new norms/standard/requirement/threats/technological leap forward have forced all the airforces of the world to move on from the Role Specific to the Multi role, thus lowering down the specific training, equipment, pilots, technicians, ground staffs, airbases and thus eventually lower downs the TCO cost.

    This is what the IAF is looking for, to increase the Multi-role combat plane like Mirage 2K (Mid wt.) -- aka Single engine for lower operational cost which could be quickly scrambled during a threat with combat capability to match the modern and latest threat, and could also give the IAF the offensive capability over the enemy airspace. This is what now IAF is looking in LCA, from the initial LWF (Light weight Fighter) idea. But in reality F-16 or Gripen is just the dream, which is practically not possible, due the economical restrains, thus leaving only LCA MK-1A.
     
  11. proud_indian

    proud_indian 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    I agree with whatever you have written except the last part. SE mrca is happening whether we like it or not and rightly so. Air force numbers are going down and we have so many legacy aircraft to replace that should have happend a long ago.
     
  12. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    They can go for the SE, if IAF have the budget after Super Sukhoi upgrade program, Rafale, LCA, Apache, SAMs, AEW ECs -- Saanu Ki
     
  13. ranadd

    ranadd 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Indian government still pays HAL for building LCA. This even includes HAL profit margins. It’s not a BOM cost only situation.

    Just like that L&T would have been paid. Yes, their profit margins may have been bit higher.

    However you miss lots of other points.

    HAL is under government control, hence their outputs can be controlled. Oversight is done by governemnt as well.

    If a private organization is there, governemnt cannot control the output. They need to commit to the product. If governemnt tries to slow down the line, L&T need to answer to the shareholders, information would have been out to public.

    See what I did there?

    Tell me, what did HAL did for the last 1.5 years with LCA? What’s the slow down? Play the game without quoting information from HAL or government. . Propaganda exists.

    Also, I know few L2 level people there.
     
  14. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    That's not correct, since the output is not restricted by the government, but by the customers. The more orders, the higher the output can be, if the order numbers are low, the output will be reduced to a minimum that can be produced in a cost-effective manner and according to the needs of the customer. If IAF doesn't order more fighter and no exports will be achieved, HAL or L&T have no choice to reduce the rate to keep the production line running as long as possible.
    The slow down for the production line? Can't tell, we know that they have outsourced much of the production parts, but I don't know if the issue is with integration or the delivery of sub components.
     
  15. Sathya

    Sathya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    LCA mk1A , Dral Rafale , F16 block 70.

    Whoever completes first order gets bonus next order.

    Competition of MII for second order..
     

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