Dismiss Notice
Welcome to IDF- Indian Defence Forum , register for free to join this friendly community of defence enthusiastic from around the world. Make your opinion heard and appreciated.

LCA Tejas Multirole Aircraft

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Dark_Prince, Apr 14, 2010.

  1. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    11,181
    Likes Received:
    6,295
    Elta will be the fastest, followed by Thales. Saab and DRDO could be the slowest.

    Yep. But it is within means since all 4 have developed their radars using their own money.

    I think only Elta and Saab are offering GaN. Thales has only GaAs. And Uttam I'm not sure.

    Uttam needs two years of flight tests, probably similar to Saab. Elta and Thales will not need years.

    But I think there's time for Uttam. If they start flight tests even in 2018, they can have it ready by 2020 and start delivering IOC radars in time for Mk1A.
     
    X_Killer, Darshan gohel, VIP and 2 others like this.
  2. Sathya

    Sathya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2016
    Messages:
    824
    Likes Received:
    828
    Country Flag:
    India
    Is it not possible to keep the Irst inside canopy ? May a hole in canopy glass flush with Irst ?

    VTOL aircrafts aren't better suited in eastern and northern sectors ?

    Can we use helipad to land and tafeoff .. Won't the Survivability increase like the landing in roads of regular aircraft ?
     
  3. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2015
    Messages:
    2,942
    Likes Received:
    1,491
    Country Flag:
    France
    9 months to ASSEMBLY. Assembly = I agree. In the west it's shorter.

    But the whole lead time to built a complete plane is far more, my bad @randomradio
    LOL
     
    dadeechi likes this.
  4. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    11,181
    Likes Received:
    6,295
    Yeah, someone I know got confused between kits assembly, full assembly and full production.
     
  5. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    11,181
    Likes Received:
    6,295
    I got more details. It's 12 months to produce fuselage and wings and 9 months to assemble. And they want to reduce this even further.

    I am looking for more info about the landing gear, didn't get anything there.
     
  6. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2015
    Messages:
    2,942
    Likes Received:
    1,491
    Country Flag:
    France
    If I remember well, the landing gear need a very long lead time to be produced. Forging parts (for some on very big press, very few on the market), machining, surface treatments....
    Probably the same for some engine parts.

    3D printing can be a solution for some, but not for landing gear.
     
  7. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2011
    Messages:
    2,941
    Likes Received:
    5,806
    Country Flag:
    India
    Your so called facts and realities are a product of your pre defined assumptions. Unless there is an official statement it is your opinion.

    MK2 program was approved in 2009. With your logic they should have waited IOC and FOC before proceeding.

    Screenshot (27).png

    Of course, it is. I don't carry crystal ball like you to call it fact.
     
    Shekhar Singh likes this.
  8. X_Killer

    X_Killer Captain FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2017
    Messages:
    1,005
    Likes Received:
    1,201
    Country Flag:
    India
  9. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,572
    Likes Received:
    3,386
    And not found to be feasable before the MK1 production runs out =>

     
  10. lca-fan

    lca-fan Major SENIOR MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2015
    Messages:
    2,375
    Likes Received:
    4,766
    Country Flag:
    India
    LCA Tejas May Not be The Best But It's More Superior Than Pakistan's JF-17
    Monday, November 13, 2017 By: India.com Source Link: CLICK HERE


    [​IMG]



    According to reports, the armed forces are not in favour of proposed versions of indigenous advanced versions of Tejas, light combat jet, and main battle tank Arjun. The Indian Air Force is yet to give final operation clearance to Tejas, which has been in the development mode since almost 30 years.

    In July, the IAF inducted the first squadron of home-grown Tejas with two fighter planes joining the force. The squadron named – Flying Daggers 45 – is expected to have its full strength by 2018-2020. However, the IAF is not eager to expand its Tejas unit.

    The IAF has raised questions over several limitations that the Tejas has. The fighter jet’s limited range and weapon carrying capacity are on top of concerns that the force has pointed out.

    Despite the limitations, the single-engine supersonic jet is far more capable than JF-17 Thunder, the combat jet developed jointly by Pakistan and China. As far as technical specifications are concerned Tejas is way ahead of JF-17 Thunder.


    Tejas vs TF-17 Thunder ::

    1. The developers at at Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) used IAF’s trusted Mirage 2000 as benchmark while developing Tejas. The IAF wants to replace its ageing fleet of MiG-21s and Tejas was considered to fill in the gap.

    2. The fly-by-wire technology in Tejas makes it easier for the pilot to manoeuvre the jet while in war mode. The fighter jet can also carry air-to-air, air-to-surface and laser-guided missiles.

    3. The HAL has fitted Tejas with advanced Israeli radars which is considered to be one of the best in the world. The early warning radar system, which works to alert the pilot of any incoming threat – enemy aircraft or anti-aircraft missile – is developed indigenously.

    4. What makes Tejas an agile bird in the air is its frame. Developers have used carbon fibre in its fuselage which reduces the weight of Tejas. It also helps the fighter jet to absorb enemy radar waves thus adding to its stealth capabilities.
    5. The height of Tejas 4.40 metres and its length is 13.20 metres. The wingspan of country’s own combat jet stands at 8.2 metres.

    6. While JF-17 needs to touchdown every time it needs to refuel, Tejas has the mid-air refuelling facility.

    7. Apart from the mid-air refuelling capability, Tejas has bigger fuel tank that JF-17 which means it can operate for a longer period. The capacity of internal fuel tank of Tejas is 2458 kg. In JF-17, it is 2268 kg.

    8. Tejas needs a runway of as short as 460 metres. On the other hand, the JF-17 requires a minimum 600-metre-long tarmac to take flight.

    9. Tejas can operate up to a height of 50,000 and can cruise at a top speed of 1350 kmph.

    10. The glass cockpit of Tejas enables the pilot to read even the minutest of details. The real-time information displayed right in front of his eyes is of great help.


    The idea for an indigenous fighter aircraft was conceptualised in the 1970s, but actual work on the aircraft project started only in the 1980s. The aircraft was named ‘Tejas’ (meaning radiance in Sanskrit) by former Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee.
    http://www.defencenews.in/article/L...Its-More-Superior-Than-Pakistans-JF-17-444485
     
  11. stephen cohen

    stephen cohen Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2016
    Messages:
    906
    Likes Received:
    1,188
    Country Flag:
    India
    Of course it is ; But JF 17 fits into the Defensive Doctrine of PAF

    PAF wants 250 JF 17 to simply Bring down some 80 Su 30 MKIs

    We have to destroy their Assets in the Minimum Time that we will get
    in any future war say Four Five days

    Therefore we need to strike First ; strike Deep and strike hard with maximum Firepower

    The Future war will be About Rubbing their Face in dirt
    Humiliating them but Not Killing them

    That is conflict below the Nuclear threshold
     
    Golden_Rule and snehil aditya like this.
  12. Zarvan

    Zarvan 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2014
    Messages:
    305
    Likes Received:
    135
    Country Flag:
    Pakistan
    [​IMG]

    by Bharat Karnad


    A planned vilification campaign is now underway against the indigenous Tejas Light Combat Aircraft program. It has been initiated in newspapers and internet sites. It’s now even on television — with TV channel reporters always ready for a joy ride in the Swedish SAAB Gripen NG or the American Lockheed Martin F-16, talking down Tejas as they have done in the past. (See, for example)

    This campaign is framed around a briefing by the Indian Air Force (IAF) and demanded by National Security Adviser Ajit Doval, who, supposedly, wanted some clarity on the single-engine aircraft the service is pushing for to, in quick time, enlarge a fieldable force of fighter squadrons.

    The Laughable Comparisons

    Some of the comparisons of the 4.5 generation Tejas with Gripen and F-16 are laughable but swallowed whole by the press and electronic media that don’t know any better. The IAF is dead set against the antique F-16. And unless the Modi government succumbs to the Trumpian pressure (already evident in Mattis’ and Tillerson’s visits) and compels IAF to buy this wretched old aircraft — and set back the indigenous defense industry by another 60 years, as last happened when the Indira Gandhi government and the IAF bought the Jaguar and killed off the Marut Mk-II in the 1970s — there’s no way the F-16 will sport the IAF roundels.

    So, the fight is really between the home-grown and home-designed Tejas and the foreign Swedish Maal.

    On the notional basis of the performance so far of the LCA operational ‘Flying Daggers’ 45 Squadron at Sulur AFB, Andhra Pradesh, these are the issues and figures given out which will be dealt with here ad seriatim.

    Truth is that right now the maintenance time is 14 hrs per 100 hrs of flight. But this is an entirely new aircraft with built-in diagnostic systems that are experience-driven. Meaning, the more the maintenance crews become conversant with the aircraft, the less is the time they spend on its upkeep. Moreover, the maintenance hours put in on the aircraft is also a function of the confidence of the pilots in the fighter plane.

    An entirely new genus of aircraft necessarily results naturally in greater wariness of the pilots and their requirement that even the minutest doubts they may have be addressed. In other words, with more Tejas entering squadron service and more pilots becoming familiar with it on the basis of the sharing of piloting experience and technical solutions, the less will be the demand for the kind of thorough maintenance the LCA presently is subjected to, and the maintenance protocol will be adjusted over time to trim the upkeep timeline. This is ABSOLUTELY NORMAL.

    Know the Difference Between F-16 and Tejas
    In contrast, the F-16 is a 50-year old aircraft whose basic planform/architecture hasn't changed a whit even as bells and whistles have been added periodically to upgrade the aircraft. It is as comfortable as your old pyjamas. And by which reckoning, perhaps, the IAF can call back the old Hunter aircraft — which was a wonderfully easy aircraft to fly and maintain.

    The Gripen, likewise, has logged a huge number of hours and because our military is institutionally inclined to accept anything foreign on faith, the Swedish item apparently evinces no worries.

    Even more farcical is the IAF’s griping about ‘endurance’ — one hour for the Tejas vs three hours for Gripen and six hours for F-16. Here, the IAF is borrowing from the Indian Navy’s rejection of the naval LCA.

    But the Tejas wing area (storing fuel) is larger at 38.4 square metres compared to 30 square metres for Gripen. So, how to explain the touted figures? Easy — compare apples and oranges!

    What is quoted for Gripen is its ferry range, for Tejas the fully mission-loaded operational range at 0.7 Mach speeds. Is this fair?

    Further, if aerial refuellers are used, the LCA range can be increased manifold (just as Gripen’s can be and F-16s). This was proven when the Tejas flew to Bahrain for the 2016 Air Show with ONE refueling stop.

    Even more ridiculous are the purported concerns about the Tejas’ lifespan – 20 years vs 40 years for the Gripen/F-16.

    The fact is that the normal life of planes is 25 to 30 years, or 3,000 flying hours. The Tejas has been designed for four times this span at 12,000 hours. At 3,000 opl hours is when the airframe of the LCA will have to undergo strenuous tests to ensure there is no metal fatigue.
    But in 30 years, manned combat aircraft will be fully extinct. They actually already are, as I have repeatedly pointed out.

    So whether the Tejas lasts 12,000 hours is hardly relevant, no more in any case than whether the F-16 will be mission ready in its 100th year with IAF.

    One fervently hopes the Narendra Modi regime has enough sense to not buy the F-16 museum piece, and Doval to see that the Tejas is not being sidelined just so the purchase of the Gripen goes through.

    If IAF wants more combat aircraft quickly, farm out the production of the Tejas to the private sector, which I have been suggesting for many years now. With two aircraft production lines at HAL and two, three, or even four more lines with one each for Tata, L&T, Mahindra, and Reliance Aerospace (throw in the Adanis — if Modi is determined on it) — with each rolling out 18 LCAs per year — the IAF will have a large force of constantly improved and upgraded Tejas LCAs in less time than it will take to get the game up with Gripen/F-16.

    It will also once and for all shut down all excuses for looking abroad for “single engine” fighters.

    The comparable cost, clean configuration (with respect to weapons, etc): Tejas for $25 million, Gripen $50 million, and the rocking chair-ready F-16 at $100 million. WHERE’S THE COMPETITION?

    But the military services have realized that they can meet their craving for imported hardware by simply riding on Modi’s ill-conceived ‘Make in India’ policy, which makes nonsense of it.

    Stop this procurement nonsense, madam Defense Minister Nirmala Sitharaman. And as first order of business, instruct Vayu Bhavan to immediately terminate the vilification campaign against the Tejas.

    And messengers Modi and Doval better take note.

    https://www.thequint.com/voices/opinion/tejas-iaf-vilification-campaign-f16
     
    Itachi likes this.
  13. sunstersun

    sunstersun Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Messages:
    667
    Likes Received:
    387
    Country Flag:
    Canada
    lol, i love the chirping of the F-16.
     
  14. InfoWarrior

    InfoWarrior Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2017
    Messages:
    838
    Likes Received:
    692
    Country Flag:
    India
    Jon Grevatt - IHS Jane's Defence Industry
    09 August 2017
    [​IMG]
    The Indian Air Force has received just four Tejas LCA aircraft out of an order for 40 placed in 2005. Source: IHS Markit/Patrick Allen
    The Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD) has revealed further delays in the country’s programme to produce the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) for the Indian Air Force (IAF).

    The MoD said in a statement on 4 August that state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has delivered just four aircraft to the IAF out of 40 ordered in 2005. All these aircraft were previously scheduled to be delivered to the IAF by 2017–18.

    The four aircraft so far delivered are from a batch of 20 designated for initial operational clearance (IOC), while the remaining 20 aircraft were designated for final operational clearance (FOC).

    The MoD said that 12 remaining aircraft under the IOC batch are at the production stage and four more aircraft, which will be used as trainers, will be produced following necessary approvals by the MoD’s Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA).

    It added that production of the 20 FOC aircraft will also depend on clearance by the ADA, which has led the Tejas development programme for the past three decades.

    The MoD said that HAL has undertaken a raft of initiatives to increase the production rate of the Tejas LCA.

    These include, it said, HAL obtaining authorisation in March 2017 from the government to ramp-up production capacity from eight to 16 aircraft per year, and the establishment of a second manufacturing line to support “structural and equipping activities”.

    HAL has also increased the number of jigs involved in manufacturing the aircraft’s front fuselage, centre fuselage, rear fuselage and wings, and reduced the manufacturing cycle time by improving supply chain management and boosting workforce.
    http://www.janes.com/article/72988/india-s-tejas-programme-suffers-more-delays
     
    Sancho likes this.
  15. sunstersun

    sunstersun Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Messages:
    667
    Likes Received:
    387
    Country Flag:
    Canada
    The fact that India still needs to compare to garbage that Pakistan makes is a big problem.

    JF-17 is basically a 3rd generation craft before block 3.
     
    Golden_Rule likes this.

Share This Page