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LCA Tejas Multirole Aircraft

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Dark_Prince, Apr 14, 2010.

  1. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    LCA Mk1 has always been subject to IOC and FOC. Without the certification, there can be no construction. And that will naturally delay the program. So a 6 month delay will push the final delivery of Mk1 to 2022, not 2020-21 as we hoped. Anyway, 2022 means 2021-22.

    So if Mk1 is delayed, Mk1A will also be delayed. The cycle continues. Luckily, Mk1A does not have IOC and FOC, so HAL's escaped ADA's hold there.

    And look at this: "While the promises are for getting the FOC by mid-2018, we will definitely get it by December 2018." Even HAL don't have hopes on ADA. :p

    So you can only imagine what will happen to Mk2. :lol:

    They are expecting N-LCA Mk2 to get FOC in 2023 and AF Mk2 FOC in 2025. What a joke. This is how ADA fools the govt, they give unrealistic dates and push the development by as much as a decade while the govt plans their procurement based on ADA's dates.
     
  2. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Where there is a will there is a Way.
     
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  3. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    There is a will, but the way is underestimated.

    In 2014, they said first flight for AF-Mk2 will be in 2017. Now it's 2019 with FOC in 2025.

    But N-Mk2, which has major redesign of the airframe, will fly in 2021 and get FOC in 2023. Ye kya hai?

    I don't think ADA has even begun construction of the N-Mk2. They will only finish paper design in 2018, then they need 3 years to build the jet. That's 2021 without delays. And then FOC in 2023? :lol:

    Only in India.

    Even Saab, after having flown Gripen Demo for so many years, require 7 years for Gripen E's FOC.

    Nobody believes the ADA's FOC deadlines, I bet even they themselves don't.
     
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  4. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    We must disband ADA and go back to pre-1984 set up in which HAL was design bureau and manufacturer with user-IAF being part of the set up.
     
  5. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Captain IDF NewBie

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    Think for a moment what Raju did..

    1. FOC Mid 2018 - try best by Dec 2018
    2. FOC Planes by 2022 - 20 such planes
    3. Next 83 if standards are frozen - @16/year minimum 5 years so 83 delivery by 2027
    4. Dependency on supply chain - openly said

    Now who is building a case that 123 Tejas will come in next 10 years?

    You see the whole issue
    1. You leak Tejas is not upto mark and say IAF blamed it
    2. You get Government saying Doval asked why not have LCA instead of imported SE jets..
    3. You see IAF flying in the plane and not bad mouthing
    4. You get HAL chief gently saying IAF did not make the specs
    5. You get HAl chief saying we will try to get the orders delivered by max 2022 and then by 2027

    What do you get?
    A gap created for need of Jet planes - to be fulfilled by Government's decision of introducing another Single Engine Fighter Program under SP route in MII..Government does not need to justify.. the narrative played is so beautifully engraved in each of the Indian minds that Gov action would get automatic support as limitations of HAL and non cooperative attitude of IAF will be played to justify it automatically..


    Shakespeare will be proud with such a good performance...

    @Hellfire i bet you are laughing at these DPSUs for screwing up their chances themselves...
     
  6. X_Killer

    X_Killer Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Even after outsourcing the different modules from private vendors the production rate here predicted is 16units/year. Really??

    Even HAL is capable to manufacture 16-18 jets per year with fully functional production lines (all three)..

    I'm unable to swallow it even with pinch of salt...
     
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  7. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    They should transfer ADA's control over to HAL. Both are located right next to each other anyway.
     
  8. stephen cohen

    stephen cohen Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    HAL chief is clearly saying that Mk 1 A will take time

    He clearly says that the NEXT 83 which are known to be Mk 1 A
    will be made from 2023

    If somebody is to be blamed it is ADA

    I think HAL people must have polished their Resumes for DRAL jobs
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    http://indianexpress.com/article/bu...of-lca-thats-where-delays-are-coming-4944113/

    While the promises are for getting the FOC by mid-2018, we will definitely get it by December 2018. We should then be able to supply these 20 FOC by 2022. And then on to the next 83…
     
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  9. stephen cohen

    stephen cohen Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    From Here on Lockheed martin would be Foolish to loose the SE contract
    Because another plane is simply a Necessity
     
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  10. Butter Chicken

    Butter Chicken Captain FULL MEMBER

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    NSA is pushing very hard for F-16...maybe it is tied to deals on the Western front
     
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  11. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    The timeline given is for the LCA MK1 Naval variant, with offshore launch capability in Goa.

    First of all there is no AF-MK2, since the user IAF, still have to finalized, and issue the Final ASQR for MK1A, leave aside MK2, and the total order today with the HAL is 20 IOC, and 20 FOC.

    Now comes the Naval variant, powered by GE-414IN6, then its still in the detailed design studies stage, and many of the tests, and technologies, and parameter will be taken from the MK-1 Protoype aka NP1, NP2 and there is a difference between the development from the scratch, and the upgraded version. ADA is the development agency, all construction works are done by HAL.

    If you bringing SAAB and its Gripen in between, then I have to give you an example, how SAAB integrated its Aerial refuel probe -- Simple tie up with the BAE, which integrated, designed, and the tested and validated in the UK, with the British pilots, simple. CHILL
    Wrong, ADA should be kept as the Development agency, and after that all IOC, FOC job to be done by the HAL, plus HAL should be freed up from the Govt decission, and budget allocation, and allowed to make venture with any OEM of its own choice.
     
  12. Sathya

    Sathya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Above timeline is possible only if IAF allows metal cutting for Foc aircrafts.
    Else more delays ..

    Here I am unnecessaryily worring about placing engine orders for Mk1A ..
    It's far off ..

    France got more than enough time to complete Kaveri stage 2 engine , modify entire Tejas , have new production facility at DRAL and still finish it ahead of Hal timelines .
     
  13. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel REGISTERED

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    The timeline is for Navy Mk2. Told by Jaitely himself.
     
  14. Sathya

    Sathya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    It looks to me ADA work is going to be outsourced in Tranches to France.
     
  15. ashkum2278

    ashkum2278 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    ‘No Frozen Standard of Preparation of LCA… That’s Where Delays Are Coming’: HAL CMD

    "We have kept things in place to produce eight and we are investing Rs 1,331 crore to increase the capacity to 16 deliverable a year," said HAL CMD T Suvarna Raju

    by Sushant Singh


    Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), Bengaluru-based fully government-owned defence aviation company, has recently been in the news because of the debate over the choice of single engine fighter for the Indian Air Force (IAF). The indigenously developed Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas has been inducted into the IAF last year. But there are questions about HAL’s capacity to produce the requisite number of LCA fighters in specified time. Indian Express spoke with T Suvarna Raju, chairman and managing director of HAL.

    HAL is blamed in some quarters for not having delivered the LCA Tejas on time. Is that criticism fair?

    I don’t think the criticism is fair. That is why I am asking all the people who have such an opinion to visit the facilities which have been established. HAL can only make the product which is sellable or acceptable to the customer. As long as the development process is on, there is always a question about when is it going to stop and who is going to take this. There is always a mutual discussion and it goes step-by-step. There is not frozen standard of preparation of LCA except for the IOC. So, that’s where the delays are coming. But I know that is in the past, all the delays etc. Now, we are in the run to make these aircraft in numbers in the near future.

    On the recent reports about the LCA Tejas and the foreign single-engine fighter, where does the HAL stand? Is everything fine with LCA?

    There is not much controversy about the LCA. HAL stands very strongly behind the LCA. We have established the production line capacity of eight aircrafts, the first five of them are already flying and have done more than 600 sorties. They are doing up. and we have kept things in place to produce eight and we are investing Rs 1,331 crore to increase the capacity to 16 deliverable a year. We have also used another concept of contracting the main components of the aircraft such as the front fuselage, centre fuselage, rear fuselage to L&T, WhAM, DTL.

    We have placed the orders. If these guys start giving me the required top-quality product, that adds to my deliverables. Now question comes, how much order I have. I have 20 IOC, of which I will provide 11 to IAF by the end of this financial year, and that would leave me with 4 fighters and 4 trainers, and trainers’ SOP we hope can be concluded so that the production run can be there.

    As far as the FOC order is concerned, mid-2018 is when FOC is expected to come but we are asking the customer (IAF) to allow us to cut the material. Because if we start now, the aircraft will come after three years. By then, this AON of 83 LCA will be converted into a contract between the IAF and HAL. However, today the facilities are on and the rate at which jigs are created are available, and the purchase orders can be verified and checked.

    What is the delay in getting the FOC now?

    The aircraft are flying and the operational capacity enhancement requires a thorough verification. It is a developmental work and we are planning to fly 60 sorties a month. Now between IAF, ADA and HAL, we are ensuring that these many sorties happen.

    While the promises are for getting the FOC by mid-2018, we will definitely get it by December 2018. We should then be able to supply these 20 FOC by 2022. And then on to the next 83… If capacities are put on depending on the configuration clearance, the numbers can be rolled out. This is not like an automobile that today you give me a number and automatically I will give you the aircraft immediately. There is a lag, we require all the material to be procured and we need to make 10,000 odd components and put them together, and some components need to be bought from outside.

    What is the HAL’s response to the Strategic Partnership model which is being introduced in defence aviation industry now?

    As far as HAL is concerned, we are doing good, we are plans are firm, the vertical of helicopter is really credible, we have our BTA, and our LCA and we are on to the upgrades of platforms which are there. We created our own upgrade on Hawk which gives us business. We are partnered upgrading the Jaguars, the Mirages and of course, the next in line would be Sukhoi. I agree that besides BTA and LCA, there is not new manufacturing but another hope for the industry is the FGFA for another 20 years in the future.

    Otherwise yes, the current manufacturing plus upgrades plus helicopters, we have work for us. As far as the SP is concerned, business in defence is something beyond the bottom line. Looking at the SP, possibly we are looking at is 200-odd single engine fighters or whatever it is, the future requirement. So that doesn't really, and I don’t want to use the word, HAL is not worried about it. HAL could well be in the SP loop, that is what we expect.

    Is the order book a challenge for HAL?

    We are trying to improve it. In aviation industry, the target is an order for 7-10 years. Currently, our annual turnover is Rs 18,000 crore and our target is to have an order book of Rs 1.8 lakh crore. It may not be impossible but it will depend on HAL, what we are promising and delivering. If it is kept on schedule, the order book should not be an issue at all.

    http://indianexpress.com/article/bu...of-lca-thats-where-delays-are-coming-4944113/

     
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