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LCA Tejas Multirole Aircraft

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Dark_Prince, Apr 14, 2010.

  1. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    1) MK2 is an upgrade to fix MK1s problems, NOT to make Tejas to a medium class fighter

    2) Gripen E was proposed in MMRCA and now in the SE MMRCA tender, NOT Gripen C/D, which is the light class version

    3) LCA MK1A is only aiming on catching up to Gripen C/D in the light class, which already has IFR, integrated EW with external jamming pod, large MFDs and is proposing AESA to it's operators as an upgrade too.
    Volvo has even proposed an upgrade of the RM12 engine, if a customer requires it, but without the gearbay / hardpoint changes of the Gripen E.
     
  2. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Which then delays MK1A too. :tsk:
     
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  3. Pundrick

    Pundrick Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    People on several forums are predicting number of MK2 & MK1A to the tune of 100+ by 2030, and its laughable, that they don't consider the capability of defense PSUs. Such statements from HAL personnel prove one thing that HAL still has no idea about how & what they'll do in MK1A to make it better, even if they do it, they won't be able to get it certified within 3-4 years.

    Plus I don't know who is the program manager for getting the certification, I hope HAL has somebody for such tasks. The FOC process is just completely disintegrated, BVR , Gun & RF probe are installed on different machines, the moment they'll integrate these upgrades on single machine then aerodynamic performance will be affected, then one more time HAL will take another 2-3 years to mature the FOC standard. In short 20 FoC MK1 are way too far then we think they are. Let alone MK2, we'll not witness the MK1A TD before 2023, mark my words.

    SADLY ,,,, SE deal is necessity for IAF and GoI/MoD is forced to opt for this path as there is no other way available for getting 42 squadron by 2030.
     
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  4. Sathya

    Sathya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    So the match is getting fixed between dassault backed Tejas MK1A vs F16

    When PMO has already fixed F16 as SE MII , why waste time ?

    We can repeat the Rafale model, buy 36 in urgent mode , followed by MII by Tata
     
  5. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Well you can't blame the county being desperate to finally having an own fighter. But it's this desperate pride that leads to misconceptions and failures in the project.

    As I kept saying, LCA needs to fix it's problems first, before we can start dreaming about 200+ numbers or higher capabilities. MK2 hopefully will fix the flight performance problems of Tejas and makes it a good light class fighter, that'swhat we need to aim for, nothing more, but also nothing less!
    We shouldn't make up capabilities similar to MMRCAs for it, when it still struggles to meet it's own ASR. Just as we shouldn't accept any excuse for under performance.

    The fact at this point is, we need to focus on getting MK1A done, not because it makes Tejas so much more capable, but because it keeps the production line running and the project alive!
    MK2 is only the long shot and completely dependent on the success of MK1A. The easier and faster MK1A can be delivered, the higher the chances for more MK2 orders, otherwise we will only see an MK2 upgrade and IAF opting for MMRCAs or even AMCAs.
     
  6. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    Because even they seem to be confused what they want, or with the economic slow down, what they can afford. And since IAF is our last man standing to fight for a non political decision as well as one that doesn't make them even more inferior to our opponents.
     
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  7. proud_indian

    proud_indian 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    [​IMG] Prasun K. Sengupta said...

    To ANIK, RAJESH MISHRA & BUDDHA: LoLz! So finally the IAF has stated on-record what I have been saying sibce early 2013@ How so? Just do a time-check on when was the first time I had stated that the Tejas Mk.1 LCA was a ‘sub-optimal’ solution & how/why the IAF has begunb using that same term, i.e. sub-optimal. In fact, that term first originatyed in February 2013 just after the then ADA Director at an Aero India 2013 symposium openly admitted that his design team had never even realised that customers of MRCAs always placed crucial emphasis on 2 parameters: the direct operating costs per flight-hour; & the maintenance hours per flight-hour! Consequently, while a Rafale requires only 1 hand-held, notebook-based avionics tester, the Tejas Mk.1 requires 35 of them! Any IAF ground-support crew team will go berserk in such circumstances. Nor will matters be resolved with the Tejas Mk.1A, which for all intents & purposes is totally doomed since it does not contain even a single structural refinement of the Tejas Mk.1’s airframe & fuselage-encased avionics LRUs. Hence, the only VIABLE solution is to end the Tejas Mk.1 programme at 20 aircraft, totally forego the Tejas Mk.1A, & expedite the LCA-AF Mk.2/Tejas Mk.2 MRCA’s developmental process.
     
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  8. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    That's pretty much the plan anyway, HAL has proposed to upgrade the FOC squadron to MK1A level directly, but that was before the delays of AESA and EW selection I think. Now I guess that will happen only in a decade or so, when the MK1s are due for upgrade, possibly the first once to get Uttam.
     
  9. zebra7

    zebra7 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Thanks for your inexpert views, btw the certification agency is CEMELAC. The order book today with Hal is 20 ipc and 20 FOC. FOC certification is given by the user. No MK1A ASQR been finalized and issued by IAF yet, and without that no development, manufacturing g could be done. With such small order, you cannot ramp up the production to 16 or 24 unit per year.
     
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  10. Sathya

    Sathya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    From the the interview of HAL Raju, unless IAF allows metal cutting for FOC aircrafts , even building FOC aircrafts will get delayed .

    He said it will take 3 years to build if metal cutting starts today.

    It also implies Hal is confident of Ada to complete the FOC or he is washing off his responsibility for anymore delays .

    Ball is in Ada s court. I hope any member with contacts in Ada can bring out their side of story.
     
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  11. LonewolfSandeep

    LonewolfSandeep Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Dont fall victim of miss information campaign, launched by some vested interests, ie hint., who are eyeing SE contract.
     
  12. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    As always, it ends up at the failures of ADA (and DRDO for subsystems) to deliver the promised capabilities.
    IAF has to wait for FOC certification, HAL must wait for IAF clearance and we are another 2 years behind.
     
  13. stephen cohen

    stephen cohen Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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  14. proud_indian

    proud_indian 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Do not miss this one even if you don't understand hindi as much of the discussion is in english.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2017
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  15. VIP

    VIP FULL MEMBER

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    I don't deny abilities of Tejas. The project is delayed one by a decade and that's a fact.
     

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