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LCA Tejas Multirole Aircraft

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Dark_Prince, Apr 14, 2010.

  1. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    1990, Off Mumbai, Jags did a strike on CBG, I was on INS Gomati at that time doing my sea time. We saw them coming and heading for some ships about 60NM ahead of us. In debrief they claimed to have knocked out the Carrier when we showed them that the so called carrier was a merchant ship. I am a witness to this.
     
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  2. ghostwhowalks

    ghostwhowalks FULL MEMBER

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    were they using stand off weapons? because if the strike was a WVR strike, then one needs to be blind to mistake anything for a Carrier (except perhaps an LHD)
     
  3. W@rwolf

    W@rwolf FULL MEMBER

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    ^my question exactly. Could you shed some more light on the range/angle at which they 'fired' the shot?
    Also, it is quite possible that the 'seeker' could have been defeated by EW suite of an accompanying frigate? (you must be know which ship that was, if it did happen)
     
  4. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    a carrier never operates alone and it is always in a formation. This simple fact was not known to those IAF strike pilots. They took a ASM shot and than flew over the ship and yet called it a Carrier. It is normal practice that they cross the coast and head towards their target, use their radar to find the target and then do a simulated launch of ASM and continue the journey to the ship overflying it to give practice to our guys in tracking fast moving targets etc. We normally pick them up the moment they open their radar and pop up for better radar look. I do not remember even one occasion when we were surprised by Jags. In fact jags used to be surprised that they always got hot reception.
     
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  5. W@rwolf

    W@rwolf FULL MEMBER

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    I guess we need someone from the other side to know the truth of this story. Its hard to believe IAF aviators don't know basic facts of a carrier and its operations!
    If you could, please tell me at what ranges were the Jags were picked up when they popped up to begin their attack run? also at around what ranges did they open up their radars? (shouldn't be a problem i'm guessing as the figures would be from the 90's)
    I can compare it with my airforce buddies.
     
  6. LonewolfSandeep

    LonewolfSandeep Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Not really, these projects are some time old. Remember current Bhramos without changing dimensions etc, is likely to double range to nearly 600km+ in very near future, being in very advanced stage of implementation, these possibilities allows others things to develop in near future, one of them was 250Km+ range requiring almost half fuel, which means smaller & lighter size overall missile, thereby development of a smaller scramjet engine became underway & it was conceptualised as something which should be able to fit a torpedo tube and be almost 1.5 times smaller by its weight. (to be seen how much happens)

    Its development is eventually planned for 5th Gen aircraft like FGFA, being likely to actually mature before FGFA was planned in interim period to also fit Mig35 & possibly LCA due to lighter & smaller weight.
    This entails more platforms to deliver, have sizeable inventory & lower overall cost of acquisition.

    Similarly ISRO/DRDO which has been talking since couple of years, of reducing PSLV launch cost to 1/10 presently & recently talking in near future, to be able to produce a launch vehicle on demand in 3 days time, guess where its coming from.... Hint: derivative of BMD program...

    These are all logical sequential progression of past achievements
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2017
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  7. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    He is talking about the fantasy of fitting Brahmos on LCA as the article suggest, which indeed ia unrealistic. Brahmos is too lare and heavy, even for the future NG version and LCA has too many restrictions to use such loads.
     
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  8. _Anonymous_

    _Anonymous_ 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    More to the point ,why would A Point Defence FA require offensive weapons like the Brahmos ?
     
  9. X_Killer

    X_Killer Captain FULL MEMBER

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    As planned , BrahMos-NG will be almost 2/3rd of BrahMos (8.4m length and 0.52m dia and 3000kgs weight ). And you assume its weight will more than its half that is 1500+ kgs.
    As per the official records, BrahMos-NG will have 290kms or you can say 300kms.

    Predicted ranges:
    BrahMos GLCM : 900Kms ( oniks have 800+ km)
    BrahMos-A : 600km
    BrahMos-NG: 300km

    Here, I can say that it is quite impossible to have BrahMos-NG on LCA (mk1 and mk1a). If forcefully integrated it will be waste bcoz we can't mount anything extra fuel to make its range suitable for..

    But further smaller BrahMos might be in scene which is not yet available even in plans.
     
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  10. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    It doesn't need Brahmos, but could add an anti ship missile, since it's a multi role fighter too. Kh35 or Harpoon would be more suitable, but IAF simply doesn't have the need to task the low end fighter with such more demanding roles. More interesting would be the addition of a recon pod, to take over simple tasks and do it in a cost-effective way.
     
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  11. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    LCA also have size restrictions at the centerline, so you can't just carry 1 there and would be forced to carry even 2 at the wings, or carry asymmetric loads, with a single one on the one side and a 1200l fuel tank on the other. Either way a silly idea to even consider such a weapon a small fighter that is underpowered and lacks fuel anyway. But that happens when pride takes over and common sense will be put aside. The LCA programme suffered a lot of this kind of thinking.
     
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  12. X_Killer

    X_Killer Captain FULL MEMBER

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    5.5m+ BrahMos-NG may work as obstacle in landing gear system (if we strengthen the pylon). And 1 BrahMos-NG on wing and a drop tank on other side may good as counter balance due to asymmetric config. But Drop tank weight will be reduced with the time&distance travelled by Fighter will again make asymmetric weight issue.

    All in all BrahMos-NG is not feasible and I agreed with you.
    There may be another type of cruise Missiles like RBS-15(Sweden) & NSM (Norway) will be feasible with LCA and we have no such projects for such category of Missiles.
     
  13. LonewolfSandeep

    LonewolfSandeep Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    BrahmosNG is planned to be 1.5 tons, 5 meters in length and 50 cm in diameter.
    Unlike some propaganda inspired LCA bashes, my understand is its being referred to for MK2 (delay it may be, LCA is not wrapping up post Mk1A orders, but a new frame based Mk2)
     
  14. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel IDF NewBie

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    It doesn't matter which version of LCA, since the restrictions remains the same.
    Size between the gear bays on the centerline.
    Weight for the wing stations, which limts heavy payloads to the inner stations only.
     
  15. LonewolfSandeep

    LonewolfSandeep Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    I suppose in any conflict, best method to take out enemy Command & Control structure, be single massive attack, simultaneous barrage of fast long range precision offensive weapons from safe distance, that requires multi platforms.
    Besides India intends to slowly migrate to Multirole capability. Capability acquisition is preferable, even if it would never be its primary role or secondary role.
     

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