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Light Stealth Aircraft (LSA) - Concept Aircraft

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by randomradio, Mar 19, 2016.

  1. shaktimaan

    shaktimaan Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Can IN fund your MSA?
     
  2. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Yes but they want the design certified by an agency acceptable to GOI.
     
  3. shaktimaan

    shaktimaan Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    can you name such agencies? i dont know
     
  4. Grevion

    Grevion Think Tank TROLL ELITE MEMBER

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    I hope IAF comes to its senses and support an indigenous effort and Pak fa will be the last foreign maal we ever purchase.
     
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  5. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    We are now on the tenth page of this news item. What a waste it has been. HAL will not be able to deliver these jets on time and they have not been able to even re-organize the internals of LCA to make it LCA MK-1A. But we are going on adding pages here.
    Please be very clear, there will be no LCA MK2. I have written many times here and there will be no LCA MK1A till 2020. So just chill guys. LCA was a TD and it remains so even today. It was never designed to be a frontline fighter. Now all the control laws need to be re-written for every thing that changes place either horizontally or vertically as that changes the CG location.
    I have not posted any new thing about MSA as even I have run in to those problems and also problems with main gear retraction and wheel track requirements. You change one thing and whole design gets changed internally. Khopadi pahtnay ko hai trying to keep MSA within weight and payload limits.
     
  6. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    On the Rafale the instability is dynamic and is managed by the FCS, this has the advantage of having more flexibility for the positioning of the loads carried by the plane, because the FCS compensate automatically the variations of centering.
     
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  7. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Rafale does it by transferring fuel to change its CG. It has a very controlled/dynamic CG position and that gives it the required margins in all phases of flight.
     
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  8. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    There is also aerodynamic instability due to close coupled canard:

    At all flight regimes, the canards/wing wortex interaction creates a level of instability unknown from other aerodynamic arrangements.

    The airframe can then be designed with a lower percentage of static instability, which leaves the designers with a much wider range of cg range for store position (partly explaining why a Rafale can carry 1.5 its own weight) and a much less vulnerable aircraft in case of damage caused to the canards.

    When in flight, the difference of instability bewteen a more staticaly instable design is NIL, while these advantages remains even passed the transonic sone, in supersonic flight, dynamic instability remains.

    A Rafale dynamic instability will always be present from low speed/high AoA to Max Mach, while static instability all but desapear in supersonic, in short, optimising canard/wing design provides with a more instable and controlable aircraft.

    This also mean that trim drag is reduced further throughout the entire flight envelop, a Rafale can be zero-trimmed in supersonic while at 30,000ft (9,150m) and a speed of M1.8, Typhoon requires a 4° upward flaperon deflection to maintain level flight.
     
  9. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    I also meant what you have written. There is a limit of CG movement for Relaxed static stability aircraft. But under certain load conditions and flight regimes, this margin can get exceeded which can create conditions for departure and generate aerodynamic moments which are beyond the FCS capability. Rafale avoids these situations by using active fuel transfer to change its CG beyond what will normally happen due to fuel consumption and weapon delivery.
     
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  10. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN Major SENIOR MEMBER

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    some pic very interesting... see various canard position.
    [​IMG]
    down
    [​IMG]
    very down
    [​IMG]
    up
    [​IMG]
    very up
     
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  11. X_Killer

    X_Killer Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    What about this:
    [​IMG]
    The canard foreplanes can be tilted almost 90 degrees to act as airbrakes on landing thus allowing the design to shun a separate airbrake.
     
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  12. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    I have extensive knowledge of CCC configurations. During Takeoff, Rafale has aft CG and during flight with stores, it manages them with fuel transfer but during landing, the CG moves to its most forward location to allow for the canards to have positive alpha and act as additional lifting surface.
    At the corner speeds when the aircraft needs max lift, the canards of Rafale provide pitch down moment which is actually an additional weight same as tail plane but that pitch down adds lifts to the wing and its net effect is more lift. A stable conventional design with less than 7% positive stability will be able to have higher max wing loading compared to any CCC design. MSA is one unique design.
     
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  13. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    One of the roles of MSA will be to act as AWAC with its main bay turned into a radar bay with L-Band AESA and side bays converted to fuel tanks and two wingtip BVRAAMs retained for self defense. This will be the only fighter capable of joining battle as an AWAC with normal forces. MSA-AWAC will fly at over 50k height and cover larger area in look down mode with belly mounted AESA radar than any of the present generation AWACs including E4D. The twin seat version will be converted to an ELINT and mini AWAC. Once you take out all the equipment needed to make it a fighter and replace it with that of an AWAC+Elint aircraft, we will have the first ever stealth AWAC of the world. Not only that, creating special tanks which can fit into main bays with doors closed and CFTs will turn MSA in an aircraft which will be able to refuel aircraft in enemy territory stealthily. My aim from very first day has been to create an aircraft capable of striking Beijing from bases in NE India. I have created one such aircraft now.
    IN will not need deck based costly third rate equipment called E2Ds for its protection. MSA will do that job.
     
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  14. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    I had thought of this as well, but for FGFA. The N-FGFA has a 9-10m long and about 1.2m wide bay which can be converted to handle a large L band radar, twice the size of the MSA's. And it will already have 360 degree capability for X band.

    Of course, if they introduce the photonics radar, then they only need to convert the bays into fuel tanks. The radar itself will be able to handle frequencies from 1 Hz to 100 GHz in 360 degrees. Even better.

    The side bays can be modified to carry long range BVRAAMs.

    Plus some stealthy fuel tanks and EW pods on the wings. It can easily carry 4 2200L fuel tanks. That's easily 16+ tons of fuel in total.

    This way the IN doesn't need Rafales for the 2 carriers, all they will need is some Mig-29Ks and some STOBAR capable FGFA-AWACS for pretty much the same price. They can operate through most of the IOR from the mainland itself.
     
  15. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Just one small correction. FGFA bays will be very much like that of Pak-FA. Unfit for installation of a radar. The radar will need to project below the fuselage to be able to get 360* coverage and the present set of Pak-Fa engines does not allow that.
     
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