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Light Stealth Aircraft (LSA) - Concept Aircraft

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by randomradio, Mar 19, 2016.

  1. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    @vstol jockey

    Have you thought of making a tailless flying wing with more range and payload based on the MSA's design? Like a MSB, B for Bomber. You can stick air to air capability in it as well. With 3D TVC, 6G performance, supersonic speed... If you increase the range by 50% or so, it will be similar to the USAF's planned PCA.

    If you remove afterburners, you could probably use a bigger wing and fuselage and give it a 100% increase in range.
     
  2. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    The aircraft production aircraft will have indigenous equipment to rival European aircraft manufacturers as the only equipment fitted in the aircraft of foreign origin will be EHSAs, Osprey radar, IFR, Active MAWS, DIRCM turrets & Britecloud expandable decoys. rest everything including jammers, chaff, flairs, weapons will be of Indian origin. The indigenous content by value will be over 85% and by number of equipment over 90%.
    The design is now a proper flying wing with nose and tail. Full flying wing configuration is out of my limit of knowledge and I do foresee problem at high G, high Alpha, combat maneuvers for flying wings. They are good as bombers but their use as fighters is still about two decades away.
     
  3. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Isn't your aircraft getting more and more complex? I thought you wanted a simpler design so you can induct it after just 2 or 3 years of flight testing.
     
  4. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Its not getting complex, its actually getting simple as now it will be able to use most stuff from Indian labs like DARE, LRDE & GTRE etc. I realised that HTFE-40 based design had an inherent risk of having very little growth potential and its engine will not have the juice to run high power generators needed for MSA-AWAC. Now I have more than enough juice for MSA-AWAC also and growth potential of 15% is inbuilt without the need to change or upgrade the engines.

    MSA-N Propulsion
    – SAFRAN upgraded Kaveri engine with 60Kn dry and 90Kn wet thrust will be the engines for MSA-N. The thrust available from these engines is already 15% higher than what is needed by MSA-N however I plan to use them to ensure future upgrades and to run them at lower thrust ratings to allow for higher EGT margins and hot section life for longer time on fuselage. The prototype 1 & 2 will be built using F404-GE-J2F3 engines originally ordered for LCA prototypes. Nearly a dozen of them and now lying unused with HAL with over 80% time remaining in them. These engines have the required thrust to complete the full certification of MSA-N. The production aircraft will have Upgraded Kaveri engines with higher thrust rating.
     
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  5. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Not bad. Although I think the cost of that imported stuff is going to rise in costs once they know you have decided on this stuff for sure.

    So tailless design for fighters is something only the Americans can pull off right now?
     
  6. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    May be and may be not. The aircraft which crashed in Area-51 was a new type of aircraft unknown to the world and it had tail plane and rudder.
     
  7. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Nice. :biggthumpup:

    The navy's MRCBF program is going to fail anyway. If you convince the IN to buy some stop gap Mig-29Ks and invest in your aircraft instead, they will have a real future-ready aircraft by 2025.
     
  8. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    MSA-N EW & Sensor Suite – The primary radar of MSA-N will be Leonardo Osprey multimode X-Band AESA radar with 360* , 200NM coverage. Two antennas will be placed in the nose at 30* angle to fore & aft axis of the aircraft while the third one will be installed in the tail cone. The radar is presently at TRL-7 and can be easily programmed to provide targeting solutions for over 20 targets simultaneously. MSA-N will use Thales-Samtel FSO manufactured in India, as its passive sensor, CASSIDIAN-DARE developed IDAS comprising MAWS, RWR, HBJ, Flair, Chaff & IFF, Leonardo Active MAWS + Quantum cascade laser based DIRCM, LWR, Low band Jammers and Towed/Expendable decoys. Every sensor will provide 360* Spherical coverage. The aircraft will also have the ability for cross-eye jamming and very accurate geo-location thru data link & SatCom to allow for very accurate SEAD/DEAD operations in stealth mode. MSA-N will also have L-Band radars in the leading edge of the wings providing 120* coverage either side from front to detect stealthy airborne targets. One of the unique features of MSA-N is that it will have Passive dual color MAWS supplemented by Ka Band Active MAWS coupled to Quantum cascade laser (QCL) DIRCM turrets. Once a missile launch is indicated by passive MAWS, the active MAWS sensor on that side will become active and provide pin point accuracy to DIRCM of the incoming missile to target its sensor head if it is an IIR seeker equipped missile. MSA-N can use Chaff, Flares & ASPJ to counter the threat including cross eye jamming mode with Britecloud expendable decoys and towed decoys on tail plane tips to defeat the incoming missiles with RF seeker. The active MAWS with a range of over 100kms can be used to cue own missiles for counter attack using directional radar transmissions. MSA-N will also have the capability for corroborative targeting and house dedicated A-C band ESM and Jammer pods on its rudder tips & D-J band ESM & Jammer pods on its wingtips to provide for completely passive targeting of transmitters. No aircraft in history has ever been designed with such formidable defensive equipment like MSA-N while being a Stealth aircraft.

    Weapons – The lessons learnt from “Battle of Midway” which resulted in loss of six carriers for want of role change of aircraft, have been applied while designing MSA-N and its weapon configuration. The basic configuration of MSA-N has 4xBVRAAMs+2xWVRAAM+150 rounds of GSH-30-1 as its basic configuration. MSA-N Main bay with size of 4.5m length, 1.2m width & 0.6m depth will house weapon systems like 2xMeteor/2xHarpoons/8xSPICE250/2xKH-35UE/2x500kgbombs/2xNGARM/2xIZD810/3xR-77s/3xAstra Mk-1 BVRAAMs. The external pylons will have a rating of 1.5ton for inner, 1ton for mid & 0.5 ton for outer pylon each. The maximum asymmetric loads between inner can be 750 kgs, between mid can be 500kgs and between outer will be restricted to 150kgs. There are no wingtip pylons as that has been exclusively reserved for detachable sensor pod with WVRAAMs moved to recessed position under LERX for lower RCS.
     
  9. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    No, I mean they haven't even made the RFP for this new aircraft I'm referring to.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    No need to buy Mig-29Ks now. MSA-N will get full favour of IN as all systems being used by it are fully developed and tested and it will take shorter time for induction. IN spent nearly 900 crores in LCA-N and it became a dead project.Now with engines which have zero book value, FCS, ESM, ECM etc already tested on other aircraft flying in India, Developing two prototypes will cost less than 200 crores. So with another 200 crores, IN recovers all its investment and saves over USD 7.5B.


    RAFALE-M vs MSA-M vs F-18SH

    MSA-N has unsurpassable advantage over Rafale-M & F-18SH in terms of payload and range. The capabilities of MSA-N are way beyond that of the two due to its stealth design. Rafale-M lifts a total of 9 tons with a fuel fraction of 0.31 while F-16SH lifts 8 tons with similar fuel fraction. MSA-N will lift 8 tons with a fuel fraction of 0.39. To match the fuel fraction of MSA-N, Rafale-M/F-18SH will need to carry 2.2 tons of additional fuel internally but their internal fuel capacity is restricted. So, Rafale-M/F-18SH will need to carry fuel in drop tanks and for that they will need to carry double of this amount or 4 tons additional fuel. This will restrict their useful payload to below 5 tons and reduce the availability of hard points to just three. Even if we assume that Rafale-M will carry 2x1150 liter CFTs and one 2000 liter drop tank on centerline pylon, it will be reduced to just four heavy hard points. Rafale-M has serious problems of asymmetric load capability due to lack of dedicated ailerons, so Rafale-M will have to carry and fire ASMs in pairs or return back with a pair on wings. Or carry four D/Ts with one ASM on centerline. Rafale-M is restricted to 22 tons of MTOW for CATOBAR and same restriction will apply for STOBAR launch also due to its asymmetric load restrictions. Same is applicable for F-18 SH, it has max payload of 8 tons with 30 tons of MTOW and has engines which will need additional 15% thrust to be able to take off with acceptable load from STOBAR Carriers. It too suffers from problems of asymmetric loads and will end up reducing the air compliment of Vikky & IAC-1 like Rafale-M did for French Navy CDG Carrier. MSA-N has no such problem as it carries two ASMs internally in main bay and another two can be carried on Inner pylons without the problem of asymmetry with no restriction on MTOW from STOBAR Carriers. In addition, MSA-N will increase the size of air compliment of Carriers it will operate from. MSA-AWC will add capabilities beyond compare andsolve the problem of deck based AWAC for IN. MSA will cost US$75 million in fly away cost without the need to pay additional money for India specific changes or modification to Carrier/Aircraft to be paid for by IN. MSA-N will cost less than half of Rafale-M and will be three times more effective compared to competing fighters.

    Rafale-M needs a longer nose gear with jump strut to be able to get the right angle for takeoff from deck. The canard of Rafale-M will stall if it had to take the full load of rotation for takeoff as it will need a positive alpha while MSA-N with combination of tail plane and V-tail will not need such raised nose gear and will do better than Rafale-M in waive off and bolter performance with single engine. Designing an aircraft is not just about making a diagram. It has to meet whole lot of performance criteria as well and deck ops are the most demanding of them all. I decided against canards as I found them to be a design fallacy rather than actual advantage. Rafale-M/F-18SH are a compromise. MSA-N is the ultimate design. Canards of all forms are a no go for deck operations. Rafale-M is a big failure as it has reduced the air compliment of French Navy Carrier which is already being debated in France. I want to know which CBG commander will agree to have lower air compliment on carriers than what they are designed to carry? The normal logic tells us that the shoe must fit the foot and cutting the foot to fit the shoe is something only an Idiot will do. Altering the shape and design of our carriers to fit Rafale-M/F-18SH is one such stupidity and that too paid from our pocket. IN needs a completely new design which meets all its requirements and MSA-N is one such design. IAF has 36 Rafale on order and earliest example of Rafale-M for IN will be available only by 2023 even if we sign the deal today. This delivery schedule is based on the assumption that IAF will not exercise its option of more Rafale and France is not able to find another operator for this aircraft in the intervening period. I can deliver first squadron of MSA-N comprising 18 aircraft by end of 2023 provided the project is given a “Go Ahead” within this year. IN has a budget of US$ 15B to procure 57 aircraft. I can deliver 114 MSA-N and one Aircraft Carrier of the size of IAC-1 free for this budget. I can make this claim as I am 100% sure of my calculations.
     
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  11. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Did you notice canards in it? These canards can also be used as rudder with differential movement. Its not a complete flying wing. It is different from my design with just twin rudders missing. Otherwise it is inferior to my design.
     
  12. randomradio

    randomradio Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Sensor fusion?

    The external pylons will have a rating of 1.5ton for inner,

    Nothing for Brahmos-M on the external pylons? 'Cause I think you need at least 2T there. I suppose nothing in the main bay as well considering you need more than 6m to carry it.
     
  13. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    The design can be altered to have few specific examples built for carrying Brahmos-NG in main bays.Just one of them. However two of them can be carried on external inner pylons. We have shortened Nirbhay in pipeline. Just wait and watch.
     
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  14. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    @randomradio, The take off performance of MSA-N has been calculated assuming a parabolic flight with both engine failure after ramp exit and zero benefit acceleration in terms of distance to ditch and flight time. That makes these calculations extremely conservative. The truth remains that even with full load of 22.5 tons, MSA-N will be able to climb out even with F404-GE-F2J3 engines alone. This is a capability which neither Rafale-M nor F-18SH can match even if both are given 10% higher thrust.
     
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  15. ashkum2278

    ashkum2278 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    @vstol jockey

    Has any progress been made with your muslim financier? Will this project ever see the light of day, if yes, then what is the timeline for the production of the first prototype?
     

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