Dismiss Notice
Welcome to IDF- Indian Defence Forum , register for free to join this friendly community of defence enthusiastic from around the world. Make your opinion heard and appreciated.

Light Stealth Aircraft

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by randomradio, Mar 19, 2016.

  1. A_poster

    A_poster Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2016
    Messages:
    714
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Country Flag:
    India

    IN/IA/IAF may theoretically be at par with DRDO on sanctioning project, but they do not have expert knowledge in any field of designing. They could test an already developed design and decide on its induction, but they cannot certify an in-development design as they do not have expertise. IAF and IN would forward your design to ADA for evaluation, and ADA's finding would be practically binding on IAF/IN brass and DM as not doing so would open them to charges of corruption.

    I am giving you an idea of what would happen when you present you design to IAF/IN/DM. They would forward you to ADA/DRDO so that they could evaluate your design as there is no capacity of independent evaluation of in-development design with IAF or IN.
     
  2. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2011
    Messages:
    11,746
    Likes Received:
    11,116
    Country Flag:
    India
    IA/IN/IAF lay down the QRs and they have their own cell to clear every project including the projects of DRDO. The final user has to accept the design. LCA is stuck for this very reason. AON is not given by the service which wants to induct that equipment. It is given by MOD. IN wants twin engine aircraft and while the twin engine LSA meets their needs, they have yet to come out with relevant QRs. Once they do, I will make my claim about LSA.
     
  3. Sathya

    Sathya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2016
    Messages:
    497
    Likes Received:
    467
    Country Flag:
    India

    If you get a seat in quota .. Will you refuse ?
    Whose mistake is it for anyone to join in quota ..?

    I personally know , many friendships have broken because of these quotas .

    If u have someone to blame .. Blame those who give quotas not those join because of quota.

    Quota is creating hatred ...
    Wish we all ask government to abolish quotas.
     
  4. Flyboy!

    Flyboy! Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2014
    Messages:
    442
    Likes Received:
    228
    Country Flag:
    India
    I wonder how demonetization will affect projects like these. You guys have an explanation ??
     
  5. Sathya

    Sathya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2016
    Messages:
    497
    Likes Received:
    467
    Country Flag:
    India
    I ve felt DM is keeping everyone in loop ..except LSA.
    Competition would have been much better if LSA is also in it.
     
  6. Flyboy!

    Flyboy! Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2014
    Messages:
    442
    Likes Received:
    228
    Country Flag:
    India
    When an organization fails to do their work, everyone has to take the blame. Those chaps who are hardworking and join HAL are rowing against the tide. HAL must be abolished.
     
  7. smestarz

    smestarz Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    4,610
    Likes Received:
    1,778
    I think you are very much wrong there,
    There shop would not be combined value as you say, how many patents did they have? What can make money is patents and inventions. They basically just sort of showed the world that its possible to take off the ground and float for some while. Did they really fly in terms of present definition?
    If you had perhaps noticed there were a lot of plane manufacturers in USA who made famous planes during WW2 like Curtiss, Republic, Consolidated, Hughes, Douglas, Grumman, Brewster, Northrop, Vought, Fairchild..
    And many of these companies had some sort of patents, and how many are still in existence?
    Just one invention might not get you the money, it might get the fame.

     
  8. smestarz

    smestarz Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    4,610
    Likes Received:
    1,778
    Rafale was more of whim of IAF top bosses rather than real strategic need, when you say the word Strategic,, Rafale would really fall short to use that term, specially if you want to hit targets that hit the Chinese economy.
    For Rafale it would be either range or load. Basically when you look at the state of IAF now, it is mostly with lack of political leadership and also as now seen highly incompetent and corrupt leadership (Tyagi and NAK browne mentioned) When IAF mentions "Medium weight" I do feel its funny, because no country in the world uses that term. Usually planes are judged by their role and abilities and not weight except if the plane is a carrier plane. Soon we shall have more sub categories in weight like Light medium, medium medium to try and justify purchase of more french crap, Funny as it may seem, many members here are trying to buy 80s plane when the plane built for 21st century is on horizon.
    Very few countries have won a war using weapons of past wars. Rafale will be facing the likes of J-20 / J-31 in case you are talking about China.

    I would perhaps call you a fool to believe that China would simply allow any plane to fly undetected at low level, further with the flight that you mentioned lo lo lo, what would be the range and warload of Rafale? remember a lo lo lo flight is the most fuel consuming. I dont think the Chinese are as incompetent as indians who allowed Chinese chopper a few kms well inside Himachal. Please do get real.

    I think the IAF is trying to fool itself and the govt that it has a competent plane that can match the Chinese, Chinese on other hand are already on 5th Gen plane. So when we are with 4th Gen rafale being touted as somewhat superior faces 5th Gen Chinese planes,, its actually a no win situation for Rafale, Welcome to the real world. On other hand, Rafale might be better to compete with the likes of PAF F-16 and JF-17.

    Nuclear deterent, India is better served using missile based deterent. simply because it has the range and accuracy to deliver using ballistic trajectory. And with Rafale, it has to go thru a lot of enemy defences to try and hit the important position. France does not really have an enemy to have nuclear deterent, You think Libya or Iraq has powerful weapons that they needed nuclear deterent.

    I do remember, France and USA bombing the ISIS in Syria and Iraq almost each day for more than a year and yet ISIS was growing and becoming stronger and all this with top of line the planes like Rafale, F-16, etc . The Russians were able to do much better using their "older " outdated planes, thus in a way, it shows that Russians had better objectivity, and simply that Russian planes were simply more capable than the French and Americans. With the arrival of Su-34 and Su-35 the situation has reversed in the Iraq Syria where now ISIS is actually facing decimation. And when the French and americans were there, the ISIS was thriving.


     
  9. smestarz

    smestarz Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    4,610
    Likes Received:
    1,778
    Firstly HAL is not to blame,. there was a lack of political will where the ruling party was ensuring that HAL survives and is incompetent to develop a plane, and so they can justify purchase of foreign planes.
    Why cant IAF accept a basic plane which can then be developed over period of time and attain maturity. The incompetent agency is the IAF which is tasked with protecting the Indian air, but they believe only "imported maal" is good for them.
    How positively if ever have IAF said "We need Tejas and we need them in big numbers" IAF only said we want a light fighter plane to replace MiG-21 and all that time IAF was eyeing Mirage 2000.
    IF you did not understand the IAF game then and now, you really are naive.
    Rememeber it was HAL that produced HF-24 ... which got good reviews and yet the political leadership and IAF leadership closed the development of HF-24 and went for more migs. So how can HAL be confident of the user?
    Today its BJP govt, who say "ok lets take Tejas 1A. if we have a congress led coalition, they will want to close the project to save "national money which can be used for poor" and import planes which are "cheap" than making ourselves.
    Inspite almost being free for 70 years and almost 5 decades of congress rule with pro poor policy, why do we still have poor? Something really wrong, no?

     
    AbRaj likes this.
  10. smestarz

    smestarz Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    4,610
    Likes Received:
    1,778
    Then perhaps the right person to contact is Kejri, you did define him and he is a "nationalist"

     
  11. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    8,860
    Likes Received:
    3,548
    Kejriwal? I don't have an opinion about him. Nobody will take you seriously if all you can bring to the thread is obsolete information and silly sarcasm.
     
  12. Blue Marlin

    Blue Marlin 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2016
    Messages:
    140
    Likes Received:
    123
    Country Flag:
    United Kingdom
    what is this lsa, it is a stealthy tejas or is this the official name for the amca
     
  13. randomradio

    randomradio Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    8,860
    Likes Received:
    3,548
    Page 49 onwards.
     
  14. smestarz

    smestarz Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    4,610
    Likes Received:
    1,778
    Really? Thats surprising, because many are not taking you seriously with such views which in all honesty does seem very similar to to what Kejriwal did.
    "But you need journalists to spread the word and someone powerful backing you within the private industry. You get a private backer, then the journalists will help."
    There is nothing better than a Demo. What @vstol jockey has as of now is an idea or paper plane, He might have done a lot of analysis, but powerful backers wont come by getting journalists., by the way even journos now need to be paid
    Even concept of crowdfunding wont work, because it might end up being too expensive. to be funded.

     
  15. zebra7

    zebra7 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2016
    Messages:
    198
    Likes Received:
    191
    Country Flag:
    India
    I want to answer you response but not in this thread, and don't want to make a mess with unrelated discussion. Open a thread on Rafale and quote me and do discussion with an open mind and not with the preoccupied impression and real facts such as The work horse of the Russian Airforce in Syria is/was Su 24 not Su-35.
    And more you have Nuke delivery option, more you have nuclear deterrent. And do case study, how Israel AF was able to hit the Iraqi Nuclear Station with F-16 all the way around the Saudi Arabia undetected, when they didn't have that range, and study why MKI can't be used for the low altitude ground attack, whether due to flying characteristic or due to the G-limitation or due to the not issue of such certificate to the MKI airframe and its fuel tank by its OEM Sukhoi.
     
    Sathya and sam2012 like this.

Share This Page