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M777 Howitzer Deal - Discussion and Updates

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by bhagat, Feb 16, 2011.

  1. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    we should reject the ^^^^^ offer and ask for

    joint development and Joint mfg of

    naval & land based EM railgun of BAE

    Products - BAE Systems
     
    oikare likes this.
  2. Anish

    Anish Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Railguns in arunachal pradesh?

    Who is going to supply nonstop electricity to the army posts when donkeys are being used to transport food and ammo?

    How can a railgun substitute a howitzer? can it?
     
  3. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    chinese are sitting in a platuea v/s our unit in Arunachal pradesh

    a plautue which is at a height

    they field high caliber high dia - long range guns

    we field M777 with ragne of 27 kms

    how does it fare ?


    Railguns range more than 100 kms can cover lot of area from single concentrated palcements v/s more nos palcement required for 27 km range m777
    or
    v/'v moreshifting required for m777
     
  4. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    anyways if china can steal f35 data just think what other things they may have stolen

    they too are anouncing breakthrus in laser / maybe railgun too

    if we dont field be sure they will sonner than later
     
  5. Anish

    Anish Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    M777 range 40km with expensive excalibur shell

    Railgun may have more range and are probably much better but cannot be deployed in frontier Arunachal because no way to transport it and no way in hell to get the electricity to power each burst when our jawans do not have electricity in those areas for lightbulbs.
     
  6. Anish

    Anish Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    BAE Systems enthused about 'Make in India', upbeat on M777 guns

    Exclusive Interview with Ian King, Chief Executive, BAE Systems plc & Deepak Parekh, Chairman, BAE Systems India (Services) Pvt Ltd.
    What is BAE Systems overall strategy and plans for India?



    Ian King: We’ve been operating in India for over 50 years. We have a training programme on the advanced jet trainer, the Hawk with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). That is Make India. It is assembled in Bangalore. India is the largest user with the Indian Navy and Indian Air Force. And so... when we talked about what’s the next programme? It’s the M777 howitzer programme.



    Deepak Parekh: This company is BAE Systems India. BAE Systems Services India with 100% equity. If you see the number of announcements the Government has made, for instance, Make in India cannot succeed unless land accusation has taken place and they have amended land acquisition act… So that is one of the initial steps… Then we’ve had number of initiatives the Govt has taken. FDI in Defence has been increased to 49% and for special cases they are willing to go up to 75% basis. These are the things that enthused BAE also to look at coming to India.



    Can you elaborate on the M777 proposal?



    Ian King: It is under Foreign Military Sales (FMS) route of the US government. It is a Government to Government arrangement and in terms of the final assembly, it will be done here. One can really kick-start the M777 because you've got a very mature plan. We know there's going to be an offset obligation, and we will commit to that obligation but we will go even further than that and have committed that we will do the final assembly of the howitzer in India. We will create a facility for final Assembly-Integration-Testing (AIT) with an Indian industrial partner. Previously we had a facility in the US. So we will basically take a replica and put it here in India. And then we will sign up an Indian partner to do it with us.



    In case, things move forward on the M777, what will be the likely components that can be manufactured or moved to India?



    Ian King: I think that will be subject to arrangements at that time. It’s quite a complex thing. Generally, with these programmes, you move bit by bit till you get the finals. The way we’ve done on Hawk. It will be better to start at the end with the assembly line first and then its easier to start manufacturing components.



    Apart from M777, what are the other things you are trying to look at in the near to medium term?



    Ian King: There’s the Future Infantry Combat vehicle is a programme where it seems budgets have been placed. Then there’s the Tactical Communications Systems (TCS) programme and with Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL).



    We haven’t given up on Combat aircraft [For Eurofighter Typhoon under MMRCA]. Our position is that we think we have given a competitive offer and we stand ready. We’ve proven that with an aircraft we can transfer technology, we can set up assembly [line], we can work with HAL. Plus our missiles business, they also just got a contract for Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM) for Jaguar aircraft.



    MoD is working on changing the defence procurement procedure with emphasis on ‘buy and make’ and ‘make’ categories. How do you see it?



    Ian King: We have got a hugely successful programme in Hawk which worked for us and which worked for HAL. We have a relationship with BEL on the TCS programme. We had a relationship with Mahindra and Mahindra on the Future Infantry Combat Vehicle (FICV) programme and we're going to set up similar arrangements on the M777. It’s our business model. We're absolutely fine with Make in India. That's the assessment and we're comfortable with that arrangement.



    The new government is focussed on ‘Make in India’. What measures are needed for it to fructify?



    Deepak Parekh: Basically, the ease of doing business in India. I think we need to support the Prime Minister's vision on how do we make things easier.



    I think we need to increase our defence spend and with current accounts likely to get in surplus in the next year… the government will have to look at putting more money in defence, healthcare and education. Many of these are done on Public-Private Partnership (PPP) basis. So the amount for revenue or rather capital expenditure is procured by the private sector.



    Today you ask any of the top 10-15-20 business houses, they all have in their presentations of what they could do in defence. Defence is a major and new area of expansion for many large Indian corporates of the top 10 companies.



    The agenda is large and complex. It takes time. I think you need to give Government three years to achieve some of these objectives. I am convinced that in five years, you will see a different India. So I think we are going in the right direction.



    BAE Systems enthused about 'Make in India', upbeat on M777 guns - The Hindu

    Its quite clear both Govt and BAE are ready for the deal only waiting for Chinooks now.
     
  7. oikare

    oikare Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Swedens guns from beginning by Bofors industry.

    In middle of Sweden close to Karlstad.

    There are two big hockey teams in Bik Karlskoga from Bofors and FBK from Karlstad.

    Archer artillery system 08 is newest guns of artillery from Sweden.
     
  8. Anish

    Anish Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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  9. VinodKumar

    VinodKumar 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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  10. Paliwal Warrior

    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    first this will be straight purchase from USA in INIDA - but no issues on that count

    the bigger problem will be that the line is already closed we are the only customer for 145 guns and then the line wil close again

    what about spares ?
     
  11. smestarz

    smestarz Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Railgun is a good idea but it is not developed and the technology not mature. EMALs is almost like a railgun that is used to launch planes, Thus if we get the ToT for EMALS we can not only use it for carrier but have other applications too. One army application might be to launch the terrorist caught in India using the rail gun back to Pakistan.
     
  12. sam2012

    sam2012 Captain FULL MEMBER

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  13. Anish

    Anish Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Dhanush is not relevant as it is 3 times the weight of the M777 and thus not compatible with Ch-47F making it useless for MSC.
     
  14. Anish

    Anish Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    M777 Howitzers deal to bring over $200 million investment in India
    NEW DELHI: The decision to acquire 145 pieces of M777 Ultra-Light Howitzersfrom the US under a government to government deal, would see its manufacturer BAE Systems investing over $200 million here, which will give a boost to the government's 'Make in India' initiative.

    The investment will be part of the 30 per cent offset policy. It envisages investing in about 40 Indian defence suppliers with an emphasis on the Defence PSUs and the MSME (Medium, Small & Micro Enterprises) sector. It also offers to establish an Assembly Integration and Test facility for the weapon system in India in partnership with an Indian industrial company.

    "In discussion with the US government, BAE Systems has developed a strong case with a fully compliant offset proposal, which meets India's offset objectives, of over $200 million," Vice President (Business Development and Strategic Planning Land and Armament) BAE Systems, John Kelly said.

    He said that the company will continue to support the Indian and US governments to bring this case to expeditious conclusion in order to fulfill the Indian Army's requirement for the howitzers.

    Talking about the proposed Assembly Integration and Test facility for the weapon system in India in partnership with an Indian firm, he said, BAE Systems has received interest from a number of companies.

    "BAE Systems is currently evaluating the proposals to identify the right company to establish this capability and to further the goals of India's offset policy," he said.

    Though the Defence Ministry has put the figure of the deal at Rs 2,900 crore, defence experts say the price will go up due to the dollar vs rupee rate and price revising.

    The Army is in desperate need of new artillery guns. Defence sources have said that this deal would be through Foreign Military Sales (FMS) but the "spares, maintenance and ammunition will be operated through Indian systems".

    M777 Howitzers deal to bring over $200 million investment in India - The Economic Times
     
  15. VinodKumar

    VinodKumar 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Well I was comparing it . I just added to show its much better and accurate than Bofors . and its competed .a major boost to army . and one more thing if it's already placed in the location for it in advance .the need for mobilizing it will be less . and m777 during war the availability of the Chinook is also important because there are few choppers and more guns .and least available time in war .
     

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