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Make in India for defence: UK ready for tech transfer to India to become ‘world beaters’

Discussion in 'Indian Defence Industry' started by layman, Apr 12, 2017.

  1. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    How do you know it was not offered? Dassault doesn't communicate like SAAB or Eurofighter in the media before an agreement was signed.
     
  2. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    Pic, If they have offered then is there any reports on it.
    If you say they have offered then please put forth the info...

    And Dassault does communicate like every other vendor about the deals signing and and prospective acceptance....
     
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  3. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Show me such a communication from Dassault.
     
  4. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    I have asked you for info if they have offered....

    And You can check the Rafale threads in my posting from 2013 to 2014 of Dassault communication offers and changes...
     
  5. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    No Dassault never communicate, it's a rule it is the other partie which communicate when Dassault is involve.... or the competitors. The CEO can say "yes I have a big hope" but no more, no real information.
    I have no information on what was the Dassault offer, because nobody have it or if somebody have this information he will not disclose them here. So nobody can say that it was not offered too.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2017
  6. layman

    layman Aurignacian STAR MEMBER

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    Dassault sets sights on supplying 200 Rafale jets to India over next decade


    This communique does it mean India is negotiating for additional purchase of 200 jets for India ?

    Regarding Falcon 8X
    “With India now emerging as one of the world’s fastest growing economies, we expect demand for our high end jets to begin rising again,” remarked Eric Trappier, Chairman and CEO, Dassault Aviation. “We are very bullish about our long term prospects in this market, particularly for the new Falcon 8X, the most technologically advanced large business jet in business aviation.”

    In anticipation of the expected market rebound, Dassault Aviation has been reinforcing its regional support presence. The company offers standard maintenance service at two Authorized Service Centers in Mumbai - one operated by Taj Air, for the Falcon 2000 series, and the other, by Air Works India, for the Falcon 900EX/LX line.

    Dassault Press Communique
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2017
  7. Sancho

    Sancho Major Technical Analyst

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    Their communication is not my issue, but you are following the Indian defence and the media around it for years, do you honestly expect that Indian officials wouldn't have stated if there was an offer for Kaveri / Snecma as part of the MMRCA? Even more so if they could had been integrated into Rafale??? My fellow Indian friends and me would have danced for days if we could brag about out own engine in a fighter like Rafale, let alone our politicians and DRDO.
    But at the end of the day, we know that the offer included production of M88 at HAL and nothing more.
     
  8. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    • Regarding Falcon 8X it's general comment on the potential of Indian market, it's not relative to a contract, it's done for financial communication.
    • Regarding the 200 Rafale:
      • the title is from the journalist
      • is from the journalist too.

      • Trappier said
        which is no new information but explain why there is no ToT in the deal. And he also said
        which is very general, which describe an action from Dassault but give no real information on an ongoing negotiation.
     
  9. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    And me even today, I hope that we will develop a Kaveri/M88 engine and that this engine will be used for Rafale MLU and for AMCA. it explain why SAFRAN put 1 billion on the table.
     
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  10. Sancho

    Sancho Major Technical Analyst

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    Well the engine development is most likely along the line of K10, but only as part of the offsets and not offered as a partnership.
    Back then when the news came out that the UAE wants a more powerful engine, Dassault could had used the Indian deal to offer UAE an alternative, but that chances was missed just as many more.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2017
  11. Rain Man

    Rain Man 2nd Lieutant POLITICAL ANALYST

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    I have my own theory on Kaveri, it's the damn name! I mean who names a fiery jet engine after a watery river, that too like a timid middle-aged woman's name...at least name it something like 'Jhansi ki Rani' and see how it spits fire!

    :D
     
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  12. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    There is no problem with the M88 engine to go up to 11 t of thrust so the real problem with UAE was to redesign the intake wich modify the structure, the RCS, which imply a new campaign in anechoïd chamber with all configuration of weapons and so on. We now think that due to a technological improvment we are able to upgrade M88 to 8.3 t without changing the intake. What will be interesting with the Kaveri/M88 is that it will be a variable cycle engine which will improve autonomy. Perhaps we will need a new design for the intake, but it's not absurd for a MLU.
     
  13. Sancho

    Sancho Major Technical Analyst

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    I didn said there was a problem, just that if they wanted more thrust and France didn't want to fund the ECO, offering India a joint development would had been the next logical thing, because everybody would be a winner. France gets the ECO development paid basically by India. UAE can have more thrust, without paying extra and India gets the tech it wanted in a partnership with the prospect of exports by offering it to Rafale customers. That's what the UAE did with the F16 AESA too, they funded the development and would have participated when exports are generated.

    Sadly that proposal never came and
    looking at the F3R and the F4 upgrades, as well as our custom version, it gets clear that there won't be any joint upgrades too.
     
  14. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    You didn't read my post.
     
  15. Sancho

    Sancho Major Technical Analyst

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    I did and I know about the changes necessary for Rafale, but that's not the point in this thread. I am talking about where joint development proposals could have benefitted both countries.
    Just as India licence producing the EJ 200 and jointly developIng TVC with the EJ partners would had been a win win for all. And that's the difference that we don't see in the Indo-French relation yet.
     

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