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Mattis Indian Visit - September 2017

Discussion in 'Defence Analysis' started by BlackOpsIndia, Sep 26, 2017.

  1. Anish

    Anish Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    what soviets did after withdrawing.

    1. Provide fuel for Afghan Air Force
    2. Provide fuel for rockets and ballistic missile strikes.
    3. Send $$$ to keep govt afloat
    4. Limited # of SF operators and batalion level advisers.

    Today-
    Afghan Air Force does not have the aircraft it had in the 80's
    Afghan Army does not have any missiles or rockets.
    US govt is there to keep Afghan govt afloat
    US SF's already there is huge numbers and we wont make any difference

    So what India can do militarily given its own budget constraints is questionable.
    At best give old stuff to afghans like T-55 and Mil Mi 8.

    If US wants it can buy T90's and Mig27's from India and handover to Afghans
     
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  2. ranadd

    ranadd 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    I am going to go rhetoric here. Not particular to you perhaps. But bear with me.


    You guys want India to have a bigger role. Yes?
    You guys throw the UNSC reforms always. Yes?
    You guys want India to be Asia’s top dog. Yes?
    You guys want India to be taken seriously. Yes?

    This is how you do it. You think things will be handed over a platter to you? On your terms? No!. We are not trying to create a new club. But enter the existing ones. Abide by the rules.

    Cost. Every club has a cover charge. Pay up and get it in.

    You guys salivate on the notion of “hitting” Pakistan. Surgical and what not. But this sort of strike is credible and visible.

    Again. Few numbers. For PR purpose. With best kit and logistics. There are parts of the world that still thinks India as underdeveloped. This was a good photo op.

    And god forbid someone dies.. I kid you not, that “heroism” will be plastered in every news outlet around the world.

    No, I am not volunteering my life though.

    But lost cause.
     
  3. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA Angel or Devil? Staff Member ADMINISTRATOR

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    Boots on the ground was just officially announcing what we already have there.... a small lethal contingent...

    Present number is small and more lethal... IF and its a big IF we committed we had to replace them with a more of other forces..

    I would have liked that personally with deployment of No 45 squadron, few Jags and Mig 29s over there in couple of bases... with helo fleet especially Rudra and LCH

    You never know, the actual experience will help us much better in developing the new products further..

    Of course the american geo political angle (yes we will cleaning the mess but then its a forceful posture than a reluctant India)

    Lastly it helps open another front for the strikes to be carried when we want to go for .... lets leave it there...
     
  4. Anish

    Anish Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    US should give us 6 squadrons F-16 free and we will deploy them all in Afghanistan
     
  5. Darth Marr

    Darth Marr Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Sometimes I feel India needs a similar opportunity like Russia had in Syria were they had they could test their weapons, training and tactics and improve on it.
     
  6. ranadd

    ranadd 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Test what? Which weapon do we have to test?

    Anything you say is in development for ages.

    I personally would have loved to see few Arjun tanks, men kitted with the new jacket and helmet with Indian assault rifles, couple of our helos, our radar station/comms stations.

    But let’s think about the money saved and build few more statues, pay the farmer loans and goshalas
     
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  7. surya kiran

    surya kiran 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    You are right and it could happen 3 years down the line. But for the same, we would need at-least the full squadron to be up and running. Spares and maintenance in place. 45 is still a long way from this. Same goes for the above. If we do move in air assets, we will need to move in ground troops to secure those assets.

    Let us for a second assume we are going to deploy our planes. Which planes? And where will they operate from? Ayni or Farkhor or Afghanistan. If its Afghanisation, the Mig 29s are out. No way, the Russians will approve the Migs to be in the same base as the Americans. How do we manage our relationship with the Russians if we are deploying from Ayni or Farkhor. Its one thing, to say we want to out flank the Pakistanis, which the Russians may buy. But if we say, we are going to muck around in Tajikistan and Afghanistan, it will require some serious maneuvering with the Russians. Why will the planes be deployed? Ground support. So the ancient Mig 27s and the Jags. HAL Rudras. But all of these need to have the spares and maintenance teams in place.

    Like they say in the forces, 'Logistics, logistics, logistics'. And currently, the IAF is struggling to get its transport and refueling planes in place. So that's another problem.

    While, I agree, this could be a testing ground for our military equipment, we first need the military equipment. 3 years from now, we will be ready. Once TACDE has completed the rule book for the Tejas and LCH, we will be truly ready.
     
  8. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Captain FULL MEMBER

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    We can always take the plunge whenever we want, once we get our house in order, i meant economy we need some time for Demonetization Results to kick in and a modernized army. It is almost elections in 2019 so Modiji wont commit any blunders, suppose the decision of putting boots on ground backfires,Opposition will raise hell and blame Modi for war mongering.You know very well how deeply connected our Aman ki Tamasha and ISI pockets in our opposition are.Once we totally decimate Opposition in 2019, most of the opposition would have been broken beyond repair and many would have jumped into BJP, leaving only the sycophants behind. Two terms of BJP will effectively wreck and kill the NGO activists tree in country.Then we put our boots on ground. If i am not mistaken we already have Intelligence,covert ops,SF operators in Afghanisthan playing behind the scenes.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017
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  9. Anish

    Anish Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    How do you propose to take the 70 ton Arjun into Afghanistan?

    Please suggest a logistics route.

    I know you wont find any :)
     
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  10. ranadd

    ranadd 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Hehehe. No I wont.

    How about we drive it through Pakistan?
     
  11. Bloom 17

    Bloom 17 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    I would be happy even if it reaches half way through..lol
     
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  12. Golden_Rule

    Golden_Rule Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Afghanistan could become a bigger trap than IPKF. First the access to Indian forces will be via Iran and will be on the mercy of the American troops who can arm twist India as well as covertly train and infuse moles in the Indian military.

    Further with Pakistan taking an extreme action of withdrawing air and land access to Afghanistan, and Iran getting bribed by China to go anti-India as well as Iran playing the Muslim card, our forces can become sitting ducks for any kind of an enemy - declared or even a deceptive ally.

    So, good decision by NS.
     
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  13. Golden_Rule

    Golden_Rule Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Yes, if we successfully recover POK as well as occupy Khyber Pakhtunwah for the next 70 years as a good will gesture of reciprocity for POK in the form of IOKP, we can then think of sending our forces to Afghanistan.
     
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  14. ranadd

    ranadd 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Again short sighted view.

    All this is happening because India is still seen as a coward who won’t venture out of our borders.

    We commit to things and rarely accomplishes it.

    IPKF ghost needs to be buried and forgotten. We need to make new mistakes, get recognized.

    Again, Indians are seen as cowards to this day. No one is saying to commit to a major operation. We are already doing things in Africa through UN, why not do things through a Super power/NATO/UNSC this time around? Prove we deserve the seat at the high table.

    This is a game. We need to play it. We may not win always either.

    See the point? War is going to be expensive. Stop thinking everything in a cost effective manner. We could have controlled the damage though.
     
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  15. ranadd

    ranadd 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    I assure you, this will never happen. POK belongs to Pakistan now.
     

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