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Midair Refuellers Tender - Airbus A330 MRTT Vs Boeing KC-46 Vs IL-78

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by PARIKRAMA, Feb 26, 2017.

  1. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    By the fact that we don't have a single helicopter in IAF so far with refuelling probe and that afaik none is planned either, we can safely say, that we don't need it.
    Not to mention that we have C130Js anyway and buying the required components to use it in this specific role, would be easier and more cost effective too.
    Our priority however lies in refuelling fighters for longer endurance patrol missions.
     
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  2. Picdelamirand-oil

    Picdelamirand-oil Lt. Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    You miss Rafale :laugh:
     
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  3. somedude

    somedude Captain FULL MEMBER

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    "cheaper KC-46A Pegasus"? It's only cheaper because Boeing loses money on that contract! (Also it has yet to be actually operational.)
     
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  4. Sathya

    Sathya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    6000kg , why is it so less.? Shocking.

    It won't give significant advantage over buddy refuelling.

    I am sure , it can fit in more than 6 drop tanks inside by volume. :hmm:


    BTW how much fuel can be added externally in C295 ?
     
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  5. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major Technical Analyst

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    Useless for India.

    Airbus is better poised to offer us a cheaper deal with A330 only.

    Because Boeing too is now in the fray.

    And Russia is now offering Il96 based tanker for longer range.
     
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  6. Sathya

    Sathya Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    At 6000kg , tanker has to touch down airbase every 2 refuelling. :ban:
    Doesn't make sense in that role.
     
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  7. sunny6611

    sunny6611 Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    great

    cost of operation & procurement ?
     
  8. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    It's a smaller plane and don't forget that it's just an IDRW invention that Airbus is pushing it in relation to our tanker tender.
    As I said earlier, they developed it mainly for a requirement of French special ops, to refuel helicopters, but even they went with KC130Js.
    For India, they will offer it only as another varient of the C295 and by the fact that we will produce it in India, but that doesn't mean that we will buy it.
    The aircraft has external wingstations for weapons, not sure if they plan to add fuel tanks there.
     
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  9. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    The advantage of the IL96 is mainly that it's a twin engined commercial aircraft, which should reduce operational costs by far, compared to the IL78 tankers. But afaik Russia is going with new IL476 tankers, upgraded and extended versions of the IL 78.

    Sorry no costs of operation, will try to find comparable unit costs later.
     
  10. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major Technical Analyst

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    I would want A330 only , if it comes at a reasonable price , else we should look at the B767 conversion by Israel.

    For the short term , talks were on to buy 2-3 more kits from Israel to convert a couple of our Il76 transport Aircraft into tankers.
    The aircrafts are currently under overhaul in Russia . Lets see what happens.
     
  11. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Well the A330 MRTT won the competition twice, but so far Boeing was not in, let's see if that changes now.
    Personally I would prefer 2 x A400Ms instead of 1 x A330. With our large airspace and fighter fleet, we nwe'd numbers to provide proper coverage. Just as with AWACS, it's no point to have the most capable aircraft, if it's available only in low numbers.
    Wrt to Israel, I don't see any advantage of customising foreign aircrafts with their parts in cas of refuellers. It makes the deal only more complicated and possibly more costly, as we have seen in the A50 Phalcon case too.
     
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  12. Ankit Kumar 001

    Ankit Kumar 001 Major Technical Analyst

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    Hmm , Germany and Spain would be together buying an extra 26 which they intend to resale.

    If they come at a lower cost than buying new ones , maybe A400M can replace our Il76 fleet , and simultaneously act as tanker too ?
     
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  13. Sancho

    Sancho Lt. Colonel Technical Analyst

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    Yes they have these extra orders and at this point one could get a very good deal for them, since Germany for example have to pay for loans if they can't sell or lease them to other customers. I am suggesting an A400 class aircraft for years (on PDF) for our forces, because we have an operational gap between the C130J and the C17.
    In this case adding tanker and transport capability to IAF would be a huge force multiplier, even if it doesn't have the payload capability of the IL 76 / 78.
    And if one thinks a bit more outside of the box, the A400 might offer India even more, but that's another issue.
    If Airbus gets the engine issues under control, it would be a great addition to our forces.
     
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  14. Blue Marlin

    Blue Marlin 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    it does not make sense for india to persue this option and would make more sense if india purchased used b-767's and have then have them converted into a tanker. brazil has did this and saved a HUGE amount of cash, india should do the same. also theres an abundance of 767's so finding good planes would be relatively easy and parts would be cheap too.
    the a330mrtt is an expensive bird and the difference in volume is not justifiable.
     
  15. Agent_47

    Agent_47 Admin - Blog Staff Member MODERATOR

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    IAF don't want used aircrafts.

    There is no Il-96 offer, it's not ready.

    You can say the same for A330. Which we selected for DRDO AWACS project.

    IAF is yet to send 26 il-76/78 for overhaul/upgrades with PS90 engines.
     
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