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Midair Refuellers Tender - Airbus A330 MRTT Vs Boeing KC-46 Vs IL-78

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by PARIKRAMA, Feb 26, 2017.

  1. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    I did mention it in one of the threads wherein I had opposed the purchase of new airframes for conversi0n to tankers and AWACs. I had also discussed that old A330 airframe wings had plumbing for 3rd & 4th engine which allows them to be readily converted to tankers as the wings are already strengthened.
     
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  2. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    will do it.
     
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  3. X_Killer

    X_Killer Captain FULL MEMBER

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    This idea would be economic but how much efficient & effective?

    @vstol jockey @randomradio @Hellfire
    I have a question about it?

    What will be the effective fuel storage for refuelling purpose with this combination ?
     
  4. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    You think? :(
     
  5. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Imagine .. somewhere over Ahmedabad there is a requirement for refuelling and at Firozepur you need AWACS ... :D

    And there are only 4 platforms :D for whole of India ;)


    "Aap kataar mein hain, kripya pratiksha karein"

    Oh by the ways, you would have been a good add on last night, where I was sitting. You would have enjoyed listening to the details of A-50 .. and shocked by the exaggerations you have heard and repeated :D
     
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  6. X_Killer

    X_Killer Captain FULL MEMBER

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    This problem will be resolved as soon as, all AWACS and AEW&C will get inducted.

    :rofl:
    I didn't get your point :fie:
     
  7. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    Initially A-330 MRTT was supposed to be based on A-330-200 freighter but Airbus found that the Pax model itself offers better value for money as the huge fuel capacity of A330 cud be enhanced with internal fuel tanks located in main cabin and part of the cabin used as troop transporter. Now what I had suggested was that we can use this space for troops to have AWAC systems in place. India needs about 6-8 AWACs more and same number of refuelers also making a total of 12-16 such airframes. But if we combine the two, we will need just about 75% of the numbers.

    Now imagine you have refueling and AWAC available together at both places at the same time.
     
  8. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Young man, you do not read. And when you read, you do not think. Head back .. read carefully what I have written! Learn to understand with minimal words written, it is boring to explain everything . Only 04 x A330s ... no IL78s flying ... what does that make you understand!!!!!


    Just like I told you not to troll ... yet. ;)

    But you just could not keep it with you :D and had to post it publicly ... how old are you .. nay young? 20?



    Phalcon bullshit you were spewing the other day. I would have loved to make you listen to the operator I was sitting with last night :D
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2017
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  9. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Can't.

    As the number of platforms will remain in 4 to 6. And imagine multiple theatres requiring at the rate of 1 AWACS in station and ! in back up.

    I sincerely hope that we do not do this .. as we are looking at the Integrated Battle Groups, which will be along the Brigade Sized forces fighting directly in control of the Corps concerned, which will be occupying 200-250 Km frontage and will need a dedicated AWACS providing C3ISR coverage as also coordinating with various FAOs and GLOs for strike package/air interdiction.

    Then the admixture of separate strike/air dominance missions ..... and two fronts!!!
     
  10. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    No. the number will be above 10 for sure when you combine the two. A330-200 can stay airborne for over 16hrs without refueling on its normal fuel only and with lower deck compartments and part of main deck converted to fuel tanks, it can not only stay airborne longer but also deliver fuel to other aircraft.
    For the 250-300 Km frontage of a corps and round the clock top coverage, we will need 2-3 AWACs with a combination of main big birds like Phalcons and DRDO developed smaller AWACs. Its the DRDO developed AWAC which will be actually used for providing cover to Corps. The big birds will have bigger area to control. These birds do about 13 kms/min in loiter setting and 16kms/min in cruise at 36K feet. They follow race course holding pattern with leg time of over 10 mins.
     
  11. Hellfire

    Hellfire Devil's Advocate Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Well, let us just say that I know of this from the horse's mouth ..... :)
     
  12. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    ok.
     
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  13. X_Killer

    X_Killer Captain FULL MEMBER

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    What will be approx capacity as refueller with this combo?
     
  14. X_Killer

    X_Killer Captain FULL MEMBER

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    I imagine with the scene when the requirement of AWACS will be fulfilled. and as per best of my knowledge, DRDO has a plan of 6 A330s with option of 3 more.

    but when we combine AWACS+MRTT, that will give a number between 6-8 as IAF asked for awacs of this class .
    still we need some dedicated MRTT because present PHALCONs (3+2) and DRDO AEW&C can't be modified as refuellers. isn't it?
     
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  15. vstol jockey

    vstol jockey Colonel MILITARY STRATEGIST

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    A330-200 has a starting cruise fuel flow of about six tons/hr at full load and its first optimum cruise altitude at this load is about FL310. As the fuel burns and it reaches mid cruise weight, it rises to its optimum FL-380 and cruise fuel flow settles down to 5 tons/hr. So you can safely assume a 5.5ton/hr as bench mark fuel consumption/hr to calculate how long it can remain airborne with standard reserves. And to tell another example, SU-30MKI will need about 11 tons for full top up in air.
    so a combination of A330-200 MRTT+AWAC can stay on station for over 12hrs and yet refuel about four SU-30MKI to full capacity. Normally for ingress, we top up about 200kms from enemy airspace. so if a SU-30MKI takes off from Gwalior for a strike in POK, it wud have consumed just about one hour flying time fuel or about 1/3rd of its full capacity.
     
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