MiG-29: Updates & Discussions

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by flanker143, Aug 18, 2011.

  1. Averageamerican
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    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    The concensus of opinion is the SU 29 is a poor plane.
     
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  2. Gessler
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    Gessler Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Su-29 ? Are you confused between Sukhoi and MiG ?
     
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  3. Averageamerican
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    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Mig 29

    Burma is again looking for some new jet fighters and has decided that the Chinese JF-17 is the way to go, mainly because of low price ($20-25 million depending on version) and China has offered to set up an assembly operation in Burma to build the aircraft. That would enable Burma to more easily train maintenance personnel and at the same time create a more extensive and inexpensive maintenance capability. Burma is already familiar with the JF-17 because back in 2009 Burma bought 20 MiG-29 fighters from Russia, for $35 million each after also considering the JF-17. At the time China offered the similar JF-17 for less than half the price of the MiG-29. Yet Burma chose the more expensive aircraft. This may have been because the Russians offered higher bribes.
    What was odd about this was that both aircraft have questionable reputations. After the 2009 sales Burma had 31 MiG-29s and, as expected, the MiG-29s proved difficult and expensive to maintain a keep operational. This time around China has promised to also supply smart bombs for use on the JF-17s.
    This would be the first export sale for the JF-17, which is already used by Pakistan but only because Pakistan helped pay for development and produces some of the components. Although a Moslem country Pakistan is also eager to find the first export customer for the JF-17 and if Burma does buy then Pakistan would help reduce the hostility Burma is facing because of the violence Burmese nationalists have been inflicting on the Moslem minority in Burma.
    The Chinese, like the Russians, are not bothered by criticism for selling to a country that was a military dictatorship until 2008 and still has a bad international reputation. What did hurt Russia after 2009 was news about the Mig-29 having maintenance and cost problems. Malaysia, for example, admitted that it got rid of its MiG-29 fighters because the aircraft were too expensive to maintain. It cost about $5 million a year, per aircraft, to keep them going. Most of the MiG-29s provided satisfactory service, but not at a price considered affordable. Malaysia switched to the more expensive, and cheaper to maintain. Su-30.
    The MiG-29 entered Russian service in 1983. Some 1,600 MiG-29s have been produced so far, with about 900 of them exported. The 22 ton aircraft is roughly comparable to the F-16 but it depends a lot on which version of either aircraft you are talking about. Russia is making a lot of money upgrading MiG-29s. Not just adding new electronics but also making the airframe more robust. The MiG-29 was originally rated at 2,500 total flight hours. At that time (early 80s), Russia expected MiG-29s to fly about a hundred or so hours a year. India, for example, flew them at nearly twice that rate, as did Malaysia. So now Russia offers to spiff up the airframe so that the aircraft can fly up to 4,000 hours, with more life extension upgrades promised. This wasn't easy, as the MiG-29 has a history of unreliability and premature breakdowns (both mechanical and electronic) which the Russian upgrades have not solved.
     
  4. halloweene
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    halloweene Major STRATEGIST

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    Btw, recently in Poland, M2K was opposed to "smokeys" (polish Mig 29) in a 1 vs 2 scenarion. result one victory and one draw...
     
  5. Anish
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    Anish Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Russian supplier’s stance a hurdle in IAF’s MiG-29 upgrade


    The Indian Air Force (IAF) is struggling to get a vital component from the Russian original equipment maker (OEM) of MiG-29 fighter aircraft, without which the ongoing upgrade of the plane may not be complete.

    In a first ever move, IAF has tied up with a private player Taneja Aerospace Limited, a Pune-based company, for fixing the latest components in the MiG-29s. This will extend the aircraft’s life cycle by another 40 years. Though everything else has been sourced, IAF has so far not had the latest navigation systems to be fitted along with the new systems, without which the work shall remain incomplete.

    The components have been supplied from the Russian OEM, while some of the smaller spares have been developed by base repair depots (BRD) of the IAF. The BRDs come under IAF’s maintenance command headquartered at Nagpur. However, when it comes to finally flying the aircraft, the plane will also be needing the navigation systems. “There have been long-drawn negotiations with RAC-MiG the company that makes the aircraft but there has been no result so far,” said a senior IAF official closely related to the project.

    Prior to signing a deal with Taneja Aerospace, one MiG-29 was upgraded by the maintenance command’s 11 BRD at Coimbatore. The new aircraft could not be put into use till now for want of the navigation system, said a highly placed source in the maintenance command. The Russians have upgraded a few aircraft too but the majority of the work is to be done at home on the lines with the one upgraded at 11 BRD, the source said. To make the work faster, IAF tied up with the private player.

    Even as the spares have been indigenized at the BRDs, the components that are single replaceable units have been sourced from Russia. The older navigation system cannot work now, said the IAF source. It has been typical of the Russian OEMs to deny or delay the supply of some or the other vital component that holds up the entire upgrade project. There were similar problems with the Ukrainians for the upgrade of AN-32s also.

    The matter is now being taken up with utmost priority at government level. This will be on the agenda during Russian President Vladmir Putin’s visit to India. Probably, the Russian government may not be aware of stance taken by the OEM. Taking up the matter directly at highest level may help, the source said.

    As far as indigenization of the component was concerned, the source said it was a question of feasibility. With the limited number required, it was considered better to go for direct procurement from the OEM.

    Russian supplier’s stance a hurdle in IAF’s MiG-29 upgrade | idrw.org
     
  6. sam2012
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    sam2012 Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Can you please share Picture of SU-29 ?? poor plane which you are talking about
     
  7. he-man
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    he-man Captain SENIOR MEMBER

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    Why mig-29 is not good enough?

    1)Zhuk-ME

    Very poor/average performance comparable to klj v2 radar of jf-17 and inferior to majority of other 4 th generation fighters.

    2) Poor irst even vs su-35/mki,,,,,,forget about western competing systems with qwip tech.This most probably employs bandgap tech.(not sure)
    14.10.2009 11-47-48_0029.jpg


    Whats required??

    1)fga-29 aesa.
    Is it ready??

    Unfortunately no.
    maks_2013-articles_2-le_nouveau_radar_zhuk_ae_fga35.jpg

    2)Will it fit??

    No idea but weight is almost same .
    Other dimensions differ by as much as 40 cm.
    qrkpwi.jpg
     
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  8. Paliwal Warrior
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    Paliwal Warrior Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    hahaha

    IAF blamed HAL for everything and every delay in every project while HAL kept on saying that delay was not at its end but foreign OEM etc end

    and what IAF and IAF/Import fanboys here used to say - that it was HAL problem they had to ensure timely fulfilmment under all conditions

    so now IAF makes a ruckus and says we want our BRD / Pvt sector to upgrade Migs under our control - very good
    they get the permission - very good

    result - the same held up by OEM verdonrs suppliers and delays

    so now IAF and its import fanboys give it a spin ?

    so now what action should be taken against IAF its BRD for criminal antinational delays in this Mig 29 programs ?

    @Bismarck
     
  9. Bismarck
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    Bismarck BANNED BANNED

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    Unfortunately IAF top brass knows that its safe from any such thing and any action taken might effect the force. Such top brass should be marginalized on health reasons.

    By the way the MiG-29K that Indian navy uses is much different than the MiG-29 A that IAF had, as a matter of fact, Indian navy worked closely with RAC to get the MiG-29 as per its requirements, because then India was the only customer for MiG-29K. Even Russia and China for that matter were interested in Su-33 (Naval Flanker) but Indian Navy was quick to observe that using Heavy planes on its carrier will mean fewer planes and thus put the CBG in risk. but having MiG-29K, which cannot carry the payload that Su-33 can carry, but it can be armed enough to not only strike against Enemy ships but also enemy planes. On a Carrier there is limit of weight, also that effects the landing etc. Anyway but after India took its MiG-29K and ordered some more, Russia than abandoned their support for Su-33 and put its weight behind MiG-29K. The Indian Naval MiG-29K is competitive to MiG-29 SMT thus it is a very capable plane, and not a MiG-29 A with strengthened air frame for carrier use.
     
  10. Anish
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    Anish Lt. Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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  11. vstol jockey
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    vstol jockey Colonel STRATEGIST

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    Yours truly was one of the person who inspite of having retired from IN was instrumental in selection of Mig-29K for IN due to the knowledge of carrier ops and now even PLAN is likely to order them after Russian Navy.
     
  12. oikare
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    oikare Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    So India have Mig-29, Multirole Tejas for Navy, Mirage-2000 and Rafale on the way. Which more is planned for close future?
     
  13. oikare
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    oikare Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Mig-27 in IAF. Plus Mig-29. Plus Rafale this year. Plus Tejas. Plus Mirage-2000 to replace? Or whatever.
     
  14. Vritra
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    Vritra Major THINK TANK

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  15. positron
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    positron Captain FULL MEMBER

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    Russian overhauled Mig-29s take to the air with Indian air force | Russia & India Report
    Russian overhauled Mig-29s take to the air with Indian air force
    15/06/2015 RIA Novosti
    The first two Mig-29 fighters of the Indian air force, which have been completely overhauled with Russian assistance to the level of the Mig-29UPG, are already carrying out flights, while another two are being prepared for flight, reported RIA Novosti citing Mig head Sergei Korotkov.

    "As of today the Indians have already assembled five aircraft themselves. Two of which are already flying. Therefore, according to the timetables that have been envisaged, we are already moving", said the corporation’s head, observing that the first six airplanes had been supplied by the Russian Federation.

    He said that Russia is sending technical equipment and the Indians “on their own territory carry out the upgrade ".

    As Korotkov told RIA Novosti in February at the Aero India-2015 aviation exhibition in Bangalore, the upgrade of the Mig-29 was being envisaged in two stages. The first stage was repairing the aircraft, then the actual upgrade of the air frame and installation of new systems which provide the aircraft with new functions. As a result of the upgrade he appearance of the airplane changes.

    The contract for the upgrade of the Mig29 was signed with India in 2008. The Mig-29 was supplied to India in the 1980s.

    First published in Russian by RIA Novosti.
     

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