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MiG 35 The New Formidable Challenger In The Skies

Discussion in 'Indian Defence Industry' started by layman, Apr 26, 2017.

  1. Bregs

    Bregs 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    Because ultimately its govt which is the sole responsible for it be it UPA or NDA both are culprits
     
  2. Hellfire

    Hellfire Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    What logistics?

    Are you referring to logistics line for AirForce? A pretty consistent set up actually?

    AF is different from Army. There is no 'fluidity' in basing/spares/repairs.

    For that you have BRDs (STATIC Units) and HAL at the tail end.

    It is a laugh, when people cry about AF logistics. IT IS NOT ARMY.

    And yes, funding for provision of missiles and equipment is needed on priority. Govt is of opinion to be able to fight a war next week. That takes time. We are on a timeline.
     
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  3. Hellfire

    Hellfire Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    The bloody hypocrite population of India is at fault. Too many babies by people who can not afford a single meal and too many of them voting and being used as a votebank!
     
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  4. Bregs

    Bregs 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    lol true :biggthumpup:
     
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  5. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    Pal ... U have read on the Read Flag Alaska yes? 2 C17s and 2 IL76s sent why??? Along with Personnel , what do you think was loaded in 4 heavy Transport aircrafts ??? Definitely NOT MISSILES / BOMBS??? then what??? it is 4 weeks of Food , cause the IAF men don't like american food? ..lol.... U know the answer .... So is this logistics or not???

    Lets take the case of the RuAF , RuN and RuArmy and their Campaign in Syrian , they have Large Transport landing every day .... what is this???

    Back to the IAF, if the Frames are to land and operate from their home bases and their FOB isn't equip to handle or support them or even arm them??? ... then what??? isn't this logistics line need to be sent up then?

    And the people want to a new Single Engine frame to add to all this Because it is cheaper !! .....:sarcastic:
     
  6. lca-fan

    lca-fan Captain FULL MEMBER

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    I LIKED THIS.

    "we fight them indirectly" that means GOI is working on some kind of plan.
     
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  7. lca-fan

    lca-fan Captain FULL MEMBER

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    This is epic... You just wrote what I had in my mind for years and share with other people. "Too many babies by people who can not afford a single meal and too many of them voting and being used as a votebank"

    All these babies were supported by Government subsidies doled out to RESERVATION CLASS and MUSLIMS and both of these communities are responsible for MESS called INDIA. Both were using huge amount of subsidies like on birth go to municipal hospital, use municipal hospitals for treatments, govt. schools (no matter what quality of education is), use ration cards to buy food, use reservation to get govt. jobs and then fleece common public by taking bribe or not doing proper work and get protected by unions.:hitwall::hitwall::hitwall:
     
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  8. Hellfire

    Hellfire Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Nellis Airforce Base, Nevada State, United States. Please note.

    Needed to carry spares for immediate repairs and also personal items.

    Syria. Please Note.

    Do you understand the concept of tiered logistics and repairs? Seriously, you are comparing IAF operating in own country with IAF flying to Nellis in US to operate or Russian AF in Syria operating ex-home country?

    Honestly, did you really think this analogy through?

    Do you even know that the tiered/layered logistics line for FOBs is already in place? Do you even know that every FOB is occupied throughout the year? Eg Naliya? Do you know that is the reason why IAF is confident of achieving an Air Superiority in 24-48 hours?

    BECAUSE IT IS ALL BASED ON LOGISTICS!!!! And they are already in place.

    We are not carting them around in war scenario. And only some fighters will be forward staged. Why do you think do we have IL-78s?

    Majority of ILs and C-17s will be used to airlift army troops of strike corps along with Civil Aviation aircrafts.


    The joke is on you my dear sir.

    You have no clue.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2017
  9. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    RUSSIA DESPERATE FRENCH DESPERATE, BUY SOME MIGS OR RAFALE SAVE OUR PLANES.

    January 18, 2016: In January 2016 Russia received the last of 16 MiG-29SMT jet fighters it ordered in early 2014. The Russian Air Force paid $30 million for each of these MiGs but really didn’t want them. The government insisted in order to keep the MAC (MiG Aircraft Corporation) from going bankrupt. That became a possibility in 2013 when it was revealed that Russia would not order 37 of MAC’s new (and still in development) MiG-35D fighters. Because of development problems the MiG-35 has been delayed from 2016 to 2018 and maybe later. You can see where this is going. Cancellation of the billion dollar MiG-35 order put MAC in a financial bind and the best solution seemed to be the purchase of more of the existing MiG-29SMTs. The 22 ton MiG-29SMT is an upgrade of the original MiG-29 with improved avionics, a more powerful engine and the ability to use smart bombs and missiles against ground targets. Thus it can carry 4.5 tons of bombs and missiles.

    Meanwhile MAC is running out of time, cash and options. It has orders for some MiG-29Ks (for use on aircraft carriers) and upgrades to Indian MiG-29s. Serbia is close to placing an order. MAC cannot expect much more help from the government which is dealing with a major cash shortage as a result of record low oil prices and trade sanctions because of Russian aggression in Ukraine.

    This is not the first time Russia has purchased MiGs mainly for financial, not military reasons. In 2006 Russia agreed to buy 28 MiG-29 fighters to prevent the MAC from going bankrupt. That crises was triggered when Algeria told Russia that it was cancelling the 2007 purchase of 28 MiG-29 fighters (for $1.3 billion) and returning the ones already delivered. Algeria insisted that there were quality issues and that some of the aircraft were assembled from old parts. The accusation turned out to be true and Russian prosecutors tried and convicted several MAC executives for passing off defective, or used, aircraft parts as new. Many of these parts made their way into MiG-29 jet fighters that were sold to Algeria.

    The MiG-29 has been in service since the 1980s, but stocks of Cold War era spare parts are still around, and it was suspected in the Russian aviation community that some of these older parts were put to use to build the Algerian aircraft. These are supposed to be "new" aircraft but some of their components were definitely not. Some MiG employees were very unhappy with the corrupt practices involving aircraft parts. This sort of crime often extends to parts for airliners. The MiG employees felt personally responsible for any defective aircraft leaving their plant and didn't want to be flying in an airliner containing fraudulent parts either. Russian prosecutors, already involved in an anti-corruption program underway for several years, jumped on these allegations and quickly found senior executives presiding over widespread fraud in the aircraft components industry.

    MiG hoped that the new 29 ton MiG-35 would save the company. Described as the equivalent of the American F-35, the MiG-35D would be the low-end to the high end T-50 (the Russian F-22). The T-50 is no F-22 and the MiG-35D is no F-35. The MiG-35D is a considerably redesigned MiG-29. The MiG-35D is armed with one 30mm autocannon and can carry over (by how much is not yet clear) five tons of bombs. The big selling point for the MiG-35D is its offensive and defensive electronics, as well as sensors for finding targets on land or sea. This stuff looks very impressive on paper but the Russians have long had problems getting performance to match promises. This is particularly the case with the advanced electronics of the MiG-35D, which are running into problems because the competing F-35 electronics set a very high bar. The MiG-35D has little stealth capability and first flew in 2007. There are currently about ten prototypes being used for testing and development work. The MiG-35D is expected to enter service some time before the end of the decade. The MiG-35D will sell for less than half of what the F-35 goes for (currently over $120 million each). Russia hopes to be able to buy a hundred or so MiG-35s after 2016.

    The 27 ton American F-35 is armed with an internal 25mm cannon and four internal air-to-air missiles (or two missiles and two smart bombs), plus four external smart bombs and two missiles. All sensors are carried internally, and max weapon load is 6.8 tons. The aircraft is very stealthy when just carrying internal weapons.

    The MiG-29 entered Russian service in 1983. Some 1,600 MiG-29s have been produced so far, with about 900 of them exported. The original MiG-29 was a 22 ton aircraft roughly comparable to the F-16, but it depends a lot on which version of either aircraft you are talking about. Russia is making a lot of money upgrading MiG-29s. Not just adding new electronics but also making the airframe more robust. The MiG-29 was originally rated at 2,500 total flight hours. At that time (early 80s), Russia expected MiG-29s to fly about a hundred or so hours a year. Reality was different. India, for example, flew them at nearly twice that rate, as did Malaysia. So now Russia is offering to spiff up the airframe so that the aircraft can fly up to 4,000 hours, with more life extension upgrades promised. This won't be easy, as the MiG-29 has a history of unreliability and premature breakdowns (both mechanical and electronic).
     
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  10. Hellfire

    Hellfire Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Yes.
    There is something in the pipeline.
     
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  11. Hellfire

    Hellfire Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    I have my views on this. I do not single out only two groups, as my own personal experience is that the problem is of Indians and their ignorance.

    Anyone who has been in Safdarjung Hospital in Delhi or Osmania in Hyderabad, will attest to the fact that the Labour Ward looks like an industry, a conveyor belt kind of atmosphere where a pregnant woman, maybe 1st or 2nd or 3rd and usually 5th or 6th will be lying in line and one after the other the duty doctors will be delivering babies, with scant/no time for post-delivery maternal surveillance. Result: In India, maximum death is due to postpartal hemorrhage of women.

    My rants on this and more will start in June end, once I get time. :facepalm:
     
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  12. Hellfire

    Hellfire Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    Everyone is desperate. Even US. It is business, at the end of the day. Look how inspite of US continuously being hit by Saudi trained and/or Saudi backed terror strikes, they are BFFs!
     
  13. Sancho

    Sancho Major Technical Analyst

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    You still missing the important point! The order of 50 included 18 MKs, because the MKI was not developed at the time. It was an interim order, to let the Russian finish the changes, but as soon as the first MKIs were delivered and accepted by IAF, we signed to contract for the licence production.
    For Rafale that's not the case, because there are no major changes and we could had signed the MMRCA as early as 2012, if everything had gone as planned. So both orders had different aims and while the MKI deal was planned next step, we can't say now if there will be a licence production, or only another smaller order of Rafales, as in the case of M2K.

    It doesn't matter if the deal still can become true, the situation as it is right now is actually more than a missed chance. We have wasted 4 years with negotiations and now spent a good part of the allocated funds of MMRCA for a small order, not to mention the industrial losses.
    We can still hope for a follow deal with licence production, which is what I do too, but it still won't give us the time back that we have lost so far!
    We could have got the first squadron of Rafale by now and the licence production started. Instead we keep hoping for a decision this or next year, with a licence production only by 2020.
     
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  14. GuardianRED

    GuardianRED Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    And yet you think adding another single engine frame with all this support + infrastructure + training both pilots and technicals etc etc .... will be cheaper ...lol

    No worries i will be dancing the Jig!

    So.... wait and watch !!!
     
  15. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Its going to take lot more then just a license for India to produce Rafales or any thing else. Its matters also what the word producing actually means, if you just assemble the parts in India are you really producing anything. If I order a bicycle and assemble it in my home did I actually produce a bicycle.

    Ask yourself this: Why has India not produced a single world class product so far? Never mind airplanes, that is far too hard and takes at least 30–40 years of cumulative experience-building. Does India produce a great car? Does India produce a highly successful software product, like SAP or Salesforce? Great bicycles? Great furniture that is in high demand everywhere?
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2017

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