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MiG 35 The New Formidable Challenger In The Skies

Discussion in 'Indian Defence Industry' started by layman, Apr 26, 2017.

  1. MilSpec

    MilSpec Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    We do not make Rd33 Engines.
     
  2. MilSpec

    MilSpec Mod Staff Member MODERATOR

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    There is not point in buying or making Mi29's or Mig35 for IAF anymore.
     
  3. Sancho

    Sancho Major Technical Analyst

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    A look to the DPP would tell you that assembling is not the aim anymore, since a constant increase of the indigenous content is required. One reason why US bids fail to succeed in the Indian market. The Rafale bid in MMRCA included the "production" of AESA radar, the M88 engine and FSO in India, which are crucial parts.
     
    zebra7 and Bregs like this.
  4. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    In reality India does not spend enough money to do much.

    upload_2017-4-28_9-51-36.png
     
  5. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    US seems to do pretty well in Indian markets and your indigenous content is not being used because India is buying most of its military weapons, and Military is complaining about the quality of even indigenous ammunition.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Sancho

    Sancho Major Technical Analyst

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    Well is not good, that's why US products were rejected in any big tender that included licence production or large numbers.
    And the indigenous content include stuff that we produced in India not necessarily only those developed in India. The MKI licence production is the base, which started off with foreign kits, went to producing the same parts in India itself and today even includes replacement of Russian avionics, EW and weapons. That's constant increase of indigenous content and the MMRCA had the prospect of increasing it to the next level.
     
  7. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Business
    World’s Biggest Arms Importer, India Wants to Buy Local


    By GARDINER HARRIS
    [​IMG]
    In a joint venture with Sikorsky, Tata builds cabins and parts for the S-92 helicopter at the Hyderabad plant. Credit Graham Crouch for The New York Times
    NEW DELHI — Of the 30 countries that attended a defense exposition last month to sell weapons to India, the world’s largest arms importer, only the Russians had the chutzpah to dress up their tanks and guns with women in tightfitting camouflage.

    The confident and sexy display reflected Russia’s longtime position as India’s dominant military provider, but decades of effort by India to make its own hardware may finally be bearing fruit. India recently rolled out its own fighter jet, a tank, a mobile howitzer and a host of locally made ships.

    If India succeeds, the Russians could be in trouble. Russia has nearly $39 billion worth of military equipment on order by India, representing nearly a third of Russia’s total arms exports.

    India’s defense minister, A. K. Antony, said at a news conference during the exposition that the country’s reliance on foreign arms makers must end. “A growing India still depending on foreign companies for a substantial part of our defense needs is not a happy situation,” he said
    Whether India can break its import addiction is anyone’s guess, but many arms analysts are skeptical. India is expected to spend about $11 billion this year buying weapons from abroad, despite decades of effort by the government to create a domestic military manufacturing sector.vertisement

    “I don’t think there’s another country in the world that has tried as hard as India to make weapons and failed as thoroughly,” said Pieter D. Wezeman, a senior researcher at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, which studies global security.

    Mr. Wezeman said he was skeptical that India’s new products would change that history, saying that its fighters, tanks and guns were “of questionable quality.”

    India ranks eighth in the world in military spending. Among the top 10 weapons buyers, only Saudi Arabia has a less productive homegrown military industry. China, by contrast, has been so effective that it is beginning to export higher-technology arms.


    India’s main problem as an arms manufacturer is a corrupt and inefficient government sector that has neither the expertise to develop top-notch weapons nor the wherewithal to make them in abundance, said Manoj Joshi, a fellow at the Observer Research Foundation, a policy group based in New Delhi.

    Arms for India
    Russia has long been India’s leading arms supplier.


    In one telling example, India could buy fully assembled Russian Sukhoi fighters for about $55 million each, but instead mostly relies on kits that are sent to the government-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, which assembles them at a cost of about $68 million each — nearly a quarter more. In another example, government labs spent billions trying to develop an aircraft engine, only to abandon the effort and buy engines from General Electric for the recently introduced fighter, the Tejas.


    “While it’s more complicated assembling Sukhois than putting together an Ikea flat-pack, it’s not that hard,” said Samuel Perlo-Freeman, a program director at the Stockholm institute. “And it’s far from an independent and autonomous development of a new weapons system.”

    India has tried to encourage private companies to make arms in India, both in partnerships to the government and independently, but few of these efforts have succeeded. Most of India’s homegrown arms are developed in 50 government labs and built at eight large government manufacturing facilities and 40 government ordnance factories.

    Companies have mostly been unwilling to work with the government, and the government has not allowed foreign makers to own more than 26 percent of any Indian factory. It has agreed to raise that limit to 49 percent, but no company has applied for the exception.


    Mr. Antony dismissed criticisms of the government’s chokehold on arms production. “Indian scientists and Indian industry are more efficient, and the government will have to support them,” he said.


    But Mr. Joshi said India’s government needed to get out of manufacturing. “Our defense industrial base is hopelessly out of date,” he said. “It needs to be dismantled and handed over to the private sector.”

    That has left the door open for countries like Russia, whose arms deliveries to India reached a record level in 2012, the most recent year for which figures are available, rising 50 percent from 2011. In the previous five years, India bought 12 percent of the world’s arms imports, and Russia accounted for 79 percent of India’s deliveries, according to the Stockholm institute. American manufacturers have recently won several orders for transport and maritime patrol aircraft, displacing some Russian equipment, but the Russians are still by far India’s dominant arms supplier. In 2012, Russia delivered to India the second nuclear-powered submarine ever exported by any country.

    Alexander Kadakin, Russia’s ambassador to India, dismissed any notion of a slowdown in sales to India. “It is inappropriate in my view and even incorrect to speak about Russia allegedly losing its leading positions in the Indian market,” he told an exposition publication.


    Because of poor infrastructure, stultifying labor rules and difficulties acquiring real estate, making anything in India is hard. The country’s manufacturing sector is declining and now represents 13 percent of the total economy — about the same share as in the United States.

    But its military and civil aviation markets are so enticing that major manufacturers are opening facilities in the country anyway. In 2010, Sikorsky Aircraft, part of the American conglomerate United Technologies, opened a plant in Hyderabad that it operates jointly with Tata Advanced Systems. The facility assembles the cabin for its midsize helicopter, the S-92. The helicopter’s cabin was previously made at a Mitsubishi facility in Japan.

    Photo
    [​IMG]
    Ashish Saraf manages the Tata-Sikorsky joint venture. Credit Graham Crouch for The New York Times
    Production was transferred to India not because costs were lower (surprisingly, they were not), but because having a local facility might encourage sales in India, said Ashish Saraf, program manager for the Tata-Sikorsky joint venture, of which Sikorsky owns 26 percent.


    But the challenges have been immense. New roads had to be built to the venture’s 11-acre site, and they came slowly. The company had to build its own facilities to treat water, handle sewage and harvest rainwater. It eventually got power from the state but operated initially from six backup generators, which must be kept operational for occasional power cuts.
    Employees needed considerable training in aerospace manufacturing and in the early days often left for higher-paying jobs as soon as their training was complete. “Our talent got poached all the time,” Mr. Saraf said. So in addition to expensive training, the company had to undertake an employee retention program.



    Shipping has been a challenge. Some of the Tata-Sikorsky plant’s most important equipment was damaged on the trip from the port in Mumbai by India’s terrible roads, delaying production. The plant sends its helicopter cabins back to the port; from there, they are shipped to Pennsylvania, where the aircraft are fully assembled.

    To safeguard against damage to the cabins, the company has hired the operator of a fleet of specially made suspension trucks that travel more slowly, at less than 30 miles an hour, and never at night. As a result, the 450-mile journey takes five days. At least two people are needed for each journey, since one must repeatedly get out with a long stick to push low-slung electrical wires up and out of the way of the truck.
    “Our early expenses were very high, as we were breaking ground in almost every area we wanted services — Internet, phone, water, sewage, electricity. Everything,” Mr. Saraf said. “The challenges continue in terms of logistics and transportation.”

    To encourage local manufacturing, India now requires private foreign arms companies to undertake at least a third of their manufacturing in India, as measured by the value of the weapons. But because of the difficulties in making high-technology equipment in India, billions of dollars’ worth of products from these so-called offsets have been piling up unused.



    “We are at a watershed moment, because we cannot afford to keep importing every piece of equipment we need,” Mr. Shukla said. “We have just produced a fighter, a tank and a range of warships. For the first time, India can realistically indigenize.”

    Much of India’s military, in any case, does not want Indian-made equipment. So many Russian fighters assembled by Hindustan Aeronautics have crashed in recent years that the Indian Air Force calls them flying coffins. India’s Russian-made submarines and naval equipment have experienced deadly mishaps in the past year as well, leading the country’s naval chief to resign last week. The distrust between the civilian builders and military users has turned the made-in-India effort into an even tougher sell. If the two sides cannot agree, the Russians are ready to step in.

    “You cannot blame the Russians for taking advantage of the situation,” Mr. Shukla said.
     
  8. GSLV Mk III

    GSLV Mk III Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    No one in India gives an F about this kind of propaganda.
     
  9. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Not really, and US does not pay bribes and that's a big handicap in dealing with India.
     
  10. GSLV Mk III

    GSLV Mk III Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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  11. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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    Why, do you think Sweden has something against India?
     
  12. GSLV Mk III

    GSLV Mk III Lieutenant FULL MEMBER

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    He maybe just another bot like Gary Milhollin.
     
  13. Averageamerican

    Averageamerican Colonel ELITE MEMBER

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  14. Bregs

    Bregs 2nd Lieutant FULL MEMBER

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    IAF do no wish to have anything with Russian aircrafts to make over shortage of aircrafts post scrapping of MMRCA and Indian Govt is unable to see beyond mega costly 36 Rafales deal. so its going to be a burden on modified/upgraded Mirage 2000 and MIG 29SMT
     
  15. Sancho

    Sancho Major Technical Analyst

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    Lol cute justification for failure, but the fact is, the Indian market is different from others where US political and financial pressure works. That's why you had to go back from your export regulations to sell us C130J and C17..., not to mention why US fighters and helicopters like the S92 were rejected for not being capable enough. If you want a share of our market, you have to follow our rules, otherwise you can keep selling F16s to Pakistan. We would do perfectly fine without US arms, while US defence industry needs sales to India.
     
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